Join us for a captivating episode of ABFI Table Talk as the Sunner family from Durabuilt Windows & Doors shares their personal and professional journey and how they built Durabuilt with grit, determination and passion. In episode 5, Joe, Harry, and Henny Sunner share their 29-year journey at Durabuilt and unpacking the layers of their experiences from immigration hurdles to business milestones.
In this episode learn how this family has mastered the art of blending resilience and innovation to stay ahead in the competitive world of manufacturing. They discuss the critical role of family support and mentorship, the unique challenges of managing family business dynamics, and the strategic innovations—from AI to automation—that have defined their growth. Learn from their stories of hard-fought lessons and triumphs, and how mentoring the next generation – family members and employees is key to their business philosophy. With over 700 employees, the Sunners are not just building windows and doors but are also opening new opportunities for leadership and growth in the industry.
Whether you’re interested in entrepreneurship, family business dynamics, or the evolving role of technology in traditional industries, this episode offers insights into managing growth, embracing change, and fostering relationships both within and outside the family business sphere.
Tune in to ABFI Table Talk for an inspiring blend of life lessons, professional growth strategies, and the heartfelt stories of a family that stands together through thick and thin.
Learn more about ABFI at https://abfi.ca/, connect with Matt Knight at matt.knight@ualberta.ca or
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattknight/ or Twitter @mattaknight
Learn more about Durabuilt Windows at: https://durabuiltwindows.com/
Matt Knight 00:07
Welcome back to Table Talk with ABFI I’m Matt Knight I’ll be your host again today. Today we’re joined by the Sunner family of Durabuilt windows. So welcome Joe Harry and Henny. If we could just get maybe a quick introduction of each of you just kind of tell me, you know, 1015 seconds about about yourself and your role with company and, and just the board family as well. Maybe we’ll start with you, Joe. Well,
Joe Sunner 00:33
my name is Joe, obviously. And I have a family, one son, three grandkids, two daughters, two granddaughters, one grandson, beautiful daughter in law, as well as that, you know, I have a wife and running the delivery windows from last 29 years. This is close to 30 years. So this is a nutshell that, you know, I come from India, and 1994 I came in here running the night business starting from 1995, obviously, with the support of the whole family, the whole Canadian community as well. Wonderful as heck,
Harry Sunner 01:19
yeah. Thanks for having us, Matt. So I’m the the son, I guess, second generation and my name is Harry Sunner. I’m CEO of turbo windows and doors. started my journey. Born and bred in England, was in England for about 20 years of my first phase of life. And then my father decided that we’re going to make a move across the ocean. And so we landed in Edmonton, and beautiful country of Canada. And I’ve been here for 29 years and had the the fortunate opportunity to grow and scale the business for 29 years. And here we are today.
Matt Knight 02:03
Wonderful, that’s quite the journey. And Henny yourself
Henny Sunner 02:06
And last but not least, I’m the granddaughter and the daughter here. My name is Henny Sunner, and I’m at Durabuilt,the marketing and renovation sales manager. A little bit about myself is I’ve been in the business since the day I was born. And I guess every dinner table talk that we’ve had, and every staff barbecue and stuff. So been in the business for a long time. And it’s a really it, we’ve grown a lot and there’s a there’s a big shoe to fill there. So just working day by day, but some very good mentors by my side. So yeah.
Matt Knight 02:45
And then for anyone who doesn’t know what Durabuilt Windows & Doors does, maybe Harry do want to do a quick kind of elevator pitch of how would you describe durability and kind of 20 to 30 seconds?
Harry Sunner 02:56
Yeah, you know, we, I mean durable. There was an ambition in the beginning. And it was just a window into a company with about 12 people in 1994 when we actually took over the business. And since then we’ve grown to be you know that ambition has gone from having some raving fans in our industry of who we are and what we do, and we pride ourselves on the envelope. We’re a product that needs to last a lifetime of building sign cycle. And we’re approximately 700 People today serving across Western Canada. And we have a strong anchor in b2c renovation business, data distribution business, and new home multifamily single family home business as well cross serving across western Canada today.
Matt Knight 03:49
And, Joe, can you tell us a little bit about your journey in starting Durabuilt with Harry so you know, what are maybe a couple of the key challenges or milestones that stick out?
Joe Sunner 03:59
Well who I don’t know what where should I start the journey? Let’s talk about my journey. My journey is come with a lot of bumps on my life. And it’s very hard to find the comparison of my life with somebody else that has I born in Punjab, India, I lost my mom when I was five years old, or less than five years. I brought up with my grandmom and walking to score to two miles each way he was successful acting on the school either start working with my family and the farming thus the financial that’s not good enough either. So my dad decided to kick me to the to England so I moved to England. While I was only 22 years on my own, with no supports, and no family, no expectation. And so start from there in England. Mike started working in the foundry approximately 14 years and the foundry and then start developing my own friendship cycle there. And then in about ’87 we start try to start our our buisness. Then 1994, that, you know, I decided Canada is a better country, better for the family better for the opportunity. And then I got my son and my wife to Canada in late 1994. And when I was that’s end of the journey, when I was only four and my 40s, and I just jumped myself that you know, and the unknown. All can say that, you know, jump it swim or die. That’s the situation I had. Luckily, I had a good support from my son, and the rest of the family as his grow and his wife or my wife that you know, and the grandkids. Luckily, that’s what has happened. There was a lot of struggle, and I involved with Durabuilt wasn’t planned, wasn’t experience, again, is a jump, jumping in the new life and no, late 40s is not an easy, easy way to do that gap. So that’s from there.
Matt Knight 06:44
And Harry what kind of led you, you would have beern like 19-20 at the time when you’re moving from from the UK to Edmonton. So your dad comes to you one day, and he’s like, Hey, we’re moving to Edmonton. And your first question is probably like, where’s Edmonton? What was kind of going through your mind what took you to follow your father on this on this journey.
Harry Sunner 07:07
He’s pretty compelling, his convincing. I was naive and stupid at what was what I felt at the time. But I knew of Edmonton actually came to him and said, I was 14 years old. Our first cousins live in Edmonton, and they’ve been here in the 70s. And so that’s really the only reason we knew of Edmonton in Canada. And so, you know, he saw what was in best interest, my original goals were to be in business, from the age of 12, I was always inspired by business, my goal was to finish education, at the minimal level as quick as possible. So I can get out in and be into some small entrepreneurial spirit business with my father was, was the goal. So when we landed in Edmonton, I think proximately in November 1994. I remember saying to my father, that whatever we do, we had very small cash coming in to the country, whatever we do, will do together till the day, we can’t.
08:15
27 below but at 5pm. And,
Harry Sunner 08:18
yeah, it was probably minus 32 at the time.
Joe Sunner 08:21
That was first day of the snow that year.
Harry Sunner 08:21
And coming in, you know, in, you know, that was the statement and I wasn’t gonna go to college, I wasn’t gonna go to university, I wasn’t gonna go get any degrees. It was straight to business and whatever that business look like, probably our first intentions was retail. That’s all the experience we had. And then, you know, we came into the opportunity with a business – Durabuilt. At the time, my first job here in Canada was, was working. graveyard shift at Mac’s was my first job for about $6 an hour at the Collingwood West End Mac store for a few months while we were navigating to see what business we were going to do. And, you know, that was really the the start point. And I do remember for the first three years, I said that soon as we have enough money, I’m going back to England. Because you leave your friends cycle, you leave all your culture, you don’t know anybody here other than your relatives. And so it was a tough, tough beginning of when you leave at 19-20 But you know, three years of long run, then we’re still here today in loving it.
Matt Knight 09:34
How did Durabuilt first come about? So like how did you find the opportunity like that come from?
Harry Sunner 09:40
It happens to be actually we we we went in to the business with one of our relatives that was looking to have a partner in the in the business and it was a business that was not doing well via windows and doors was the kind of main product line and a very small company. And I think the current owner of the company at the time started to hound like my father, and I’m sure he can add to this. And from that point, we said no, multiple times, until, you know, they kept being tested. And, and then, you know, we kind of decided to take a leap and give it a try, even though we were very immature in that side of business, you know, whether it’s manufacturing, or even the scale of business in the window and door industry, we had no idea. But that was really kind of the stepping stones of kind of how we kind of started getting chair if you want to add anything to that,
Joe Sunner 10:44
Well we just, I just walked in with my brother in law that, you know, my wife saw sister’s husband. And I will guide knows me very well knows him very well. He just called us in the office. And he asked, my brother introduced me brother in law, and he said, he’s looking for the business because we came here as a business peoples. He said, Oh, businesses, yeah, I said, No, no, we don’t have any experience that, you know, I don’t want to be do that. And our business development that. And just just like that, you know, conversation started from there. And he started falling off because either he has to be involved with me or somebody, or he has to be shut the doors that were the situation at that time. And I do remember that, you know, first year, when we involve that, on the first year, when we took it over there to another sale was $1.6 million. But the negative of $96,000 for the whole year. That’s what the position we took it at that time. And somehow we didn’t get along together because he’s a nice person. He’s still around, no doubt for that. But it did not connect with us that you know, is a different view different, everything is different. We still meet each other we still have a lunch together start you know, but he’s a nice guy, but his opinion is completely different. And from there we pick it up that you know is again is do or die or die because we need the food on the table. So failure is not an option at all. We used to be that you know, when we go to when we used to be go to hand be such where is the avenue? What is that? You know? So we didn’t know anything at all. I didn’t know anything, but where is my bank? So desperate will pick up the socks and go from there.
Matt Knight 12:46
A couple years go by, you know, it’s your take over this company. 19 people. Henny you come into the picture at some point through this journey, I’m sure
Henny Sunner 12:57
Yeah.
Matt Knight 12:58
You mentioned you grew up at, you know, understanding windows and hearing about the industry your whole life. What led you to want to join your dad and your your grandpa in this adventure?
Henny Sunner 13:09
Yeah, well, I got a different bit of I got a different perspective on the journey from when, you know, from my position so obviously, I started seeing the journey from they took sole ownership basically the year I was born, so a good a bad thing. I don’t know, but the year was born. And so that time of the business, there was a lot of hardship and you know, things were not so good. And they were working super hard like seven days a week I remember I still remember as a cool memory that Harry my dad, obviously he made sure that every Sunday we would have you know, daddy daughter days and he made sure even in the in the realm of how much is going on that every Sunday we always hung out and looking back in hindsight now I can only imagine how hard that was when he was working with most him and my granddad you know, basically like 12 to 12 kind of or you know 24 hours around the clock to get this business in a place that’s that successful. So I think every year is sort of hardship come come by and you know, you didn’t realize it at the time but when you look in hindsight there was a lot of a lot of work there was a lot of pain it’s it’s a hard industry to scale in there was competitors in the space at the time that were close to the size we are now that they were trying to catch up to so you know we went to every staff barbecue Christmas event when this new design gallery is open, we were there trade shows so I don’t think it was an intentional way but I slowly like it became kind of I was we became a part of it obviously as you do. I went to university U of A with a finance degree. I’ve graduated finance and accounting. And I kind of made the decision I had a couple of options to go a different path job wise but started working at Durabuit about 2016 and service department and accounting estimating through the ways and marketing is where I’ve landed. And renovation, sales is the other division I’ve got. And so I feel fortunate to be a part of part of the journey later. And obviously, they’ve kind of, it’s at a point where we’re at such a strong position now, and we’re growing and will only continue to grow. So I think my pressure is going to be different than what they’ve gone through. It’s going to be his the business today, how do you either grow or sustain that or become a part a stronghold and that in some, so that the different pressure I think you get as a second or third generation, they kind of started same generation, but they that’s the different pressure you get
Matt Knight 15:47
now, so obviously, you know, different challenges for for all three generations going through this, this business journey in the last 29 years. Maybe the good question here, and they’ll bring it to you, Harry, you know, what, you know, how have you balanced family and business dynamics over the years? So we heard from Henny early on, it was you know, those Sunday daddy daughter dates that really made kind of an impact and her remembering that to this day. But how do you? How do you handle working with your family members and your and your daughter and your dad every every day? I think it’s
Harry Sunner 16:24
honestly it starts from two special women, I think in our lives. One is my mother and the other ones, my wife, that have been kind of a very strong anchor in the personal space of our life. Because if we didn’t have that strength, you know, you need to focus where you need to focus. And that was the business and to have the acceptance to be able to work as long as you need to be out there and take care of kids food and life at home, which is as critical as as your life in business. So I think that really is our foundation and point and, you know, for a good 10 years or 11 years of that first phase of life. It was seven days a week other than the exception of kid time on Sunday, I was married at the age of 19. So very young age, had our first child of any 23. So had the bolts on me pretty quick in terms of responsibilities and trying to mature up and then at the same time had a business to grow. So it allowed me to have my ambition to say we’re going to make something out of this when you’ve got family support the way we we haven’t had and from that point, you know, I mean, like, I probably went through five or seven ulcers at the time of that life style when you just work, work, work, work. But you do everything possible to get to some level of success, some foundations and footings. And, you know, that was equally the same on how we did and some very key people that today are with us are our COO and our VP of Operations. Like we had some people that ignited with us together when we were very small team. And, you know, they were each other’s pillars, you know, one wobbles the other one gets you the other one wobbles the others have got you right and, and I think that’s really how it all came about. And and that was that that kind of the first 10 year phase was really a very, very difficult phase for the business.
Henny Sunner 18:44
I’ll add one thing, I think they navigated something else that a lot of immigrant families or other families have to navigate through as they were living together and working together. So I think the fact that these two you know, I think I always look up to them because I see, you know, father and son dynamics they navigated father son dynamic at work and at home and they I thought they did an excellent job of it and yeah, I mean ups and downs of course but that’s another thing that I think maybe it’s important if
Matt Knight 19:15
that’s another layer that makes
Harry Sunner 19:17
getting along this is a difficult task whether you partners business and even family on top of that makes it even more difficult right to to compromise with each other to be successful.
Matt Knight 19:29
Yeah, I can’t even remember or I can’t even imagine that conversation with your you know, your, your wife when you’re 19 saying hey, we’re gonna move in with my parents. We’re gonna own a business together. That’s we don’t know anything about windows and doors, but we know we can do this.
Harry Sunner 19:43
Yeah, yeah, it’s the blind risk a lot of lot of risk and unknown territory and restlessness to not give up you know, we will always not give up attitude. And I mean when you trace back the some of the dark times I don’t know if I’d ever redo this again because you don’t know what you don’t know how to view that. And when you look back and someone told you that you’re going to do this to this to this to get to that I would probably say now that you know that I’m not going to I’m not going to go through that type of pain to for that type of success but that’s entrepreneurship I think and that’s many businesses probably would echo a similar story
Joe Sunner 20:31
I want add some little bit more that what he said about my daughter in law that you know that he say is unknown, or whatever it is that you know, but she’s so nice and I know her family well, well before she’s born. But to be honest with you that to know where she’s getting when she went off to the marriage when she was coming on the aeroplane me and her were sitting together are basically I explained her everything but then six hours flight seven hours flight, how much we owe the money, the peoples, and what you are heading for that. And she wasn’t surprised but she will support us, and I support her as well. Is a great combinations. And I feel I’m very lucky for that the whole family is great. And then when we come to the family is creating one by one or my son is more is invovled with us within three months, and then sign contact, you know, he involved with that. And then other people start on boarding. As we started growing, as we start establishing. We are lucky enough that you know these peoples are still working with us. And there is a no spell with us. We still working together, we still live together including the families. And so this is something’s really too proud off all of us. And I’m proud of myself as well, who tried to hold the group together.
Matt Knight 20:31
Yeah. Sounds like to summarize a little bit of that, that you know, that transparency and openness was one of those things that helped lead to some of the success. What other kind of advice or, or wisdom would you pass on to someone looking to start a business with a family member
Joe Sunner 22:37
First this is that you have to be prepared for the compromise. You, You are only one person, nobody’s compatible with you. There’s only one person you are if you’re respecting somebody will be exactly the same like you that will never happened. And maybe that’s only the strength if that’s your partner or your coworker or even son or father, whoever it is that you know is 100% compatible. Then what is the life how you can grow? I am different, you are different. He’s different. His opinion is different. Mine is different. That’s why we can make the other opinion. We have to we have to prepare for the compromise. How we can get along together? How you are to be refused? How do you expect that it feels that you know if something is refusing this? Why is it refusing that? Are you accepting that or your ego is standing there? Try when you’re deciding you can have a discussions but when you decided it then don’t put the blame on each other that you know you said that that’s why it didn’t happened or I said that, that’s why a success now be decided either be have to deal with that good or bad? Not like I will create the card for the good ones. He will he get bad ones. No. See, that’s the that’s the that’s the main one I very advise that you know, when you’re getting the partnership, either wife and husband or whoever it is that you know they have to be ready to preparation that you know, whatever you decided, decide. But once you decided, you are responsible for that both sides of the coin.
Matt Knight 24:34
So to kind of lean in on those differences. Feel open to disagree but then commit and move forward together. Excellent. So on that note, Harry, you’re probably throughout the years at some point. There has been some differences between you and your father and in the vision for the company. How have you been able to align or defer these and work through those And, you know, kind of so how did these visions for the company align or differ? And how did you move ahead and integrate these to move forward?
Harry Sunner 25:12
Lots of arguments, feuds. You know, the best thing about I think our call it whether it’s partnership or relationship, because the business is partnership, not relationship, and they call me a relationship. But with, with the understanding of a pretty high risk, go forward mentality. And my father’s very low risk, risk adverse. You know, and either or don’t succeed. You know, if you’re too high risk, you’re gonna be volatile to failing. And maybe if I did this, all on my own, I may have gone bankrupt twice, along the way, because you’re overworking yourself too much, where you’re going too fast. And maybe the other way you don’t grow, if you’re too low risk and risk adverse, right. So you know, that was been our secret recipe, be honest with you that one lifts the other one brings the other down, if you’re going too high. But when growing the business, the biggest thing is to compromise. And as you get older, you get more mature to learn that right and experience builds. But during that journey, we had some tough times in not aligning to direction, not aligning to growth path, whether it was changing our brand, it was changing certain things in the organization with a vision. But rightfully, those what if scenarios, keep you in check. And then those are the times where people can say, yeah, it’s okay to fail. But is it really if you if you have compromised and you’re listening to your partner or your relationships? Why do we need to fail to a point where you go go that far down? Right. So yeah, I think I think the relationship has been a lot more stronger. Because it gets stronger when you get successful. And it gets weak when you’re not successful, right, because you’re frustrated. And you’re working hard every day for 12 hours. And so you’re all working hard. But if you’re not successful, you’re gonna, you’re gonna have arguments, you’re gonna have misalignments, you’re gonna have frustrations. And that’s what we have gone through a number of times over the course of the journey. And we’re lucky to have some people again, around us at work and at home, that have tempered us that have kind of filtered or being a space in between the relationship and the partnership, because it does take that much when you get to when you’re both driven to drive to get successful.
Matt Knight 28:06
So you touched a little bit on on that relationship that you have with kind of your father and your and your family members. Henny how have you found your relationship with your, with your father, your grandfather change once you come in and start working full time? Like what does that been like for you?
Henny Sunner 28:22
Yeah, that’s a good question. It’s it’s twofold. It’s, it’s very rewarding. When things are good, you, I’m close to my family. And I’ve always have been. So the fact that I get to work with my family, I think, I think daughter and father is different than daughter and son. I will say that, you know, I’ve seen to that, two dynamics, but you know, the relationships grown, I think that we’ve all gotten closer, I think we’re closer than I would have been if I went a different path. But then there’s also the natural spillover into keeping it separate from your home life. And how do you not impact everyone else around I have a sister and a brother and you know, I still live at home. I will until I’m married probably.
Harry Sunner 29:13
Maybe even after
Henny Sunner 29:14
Maybe after too. Just kidding. But you know, yeah, you just have to be careful not to let it spill over. But for the most part, I would say I love it. I get to work. I enjoy working with bosses, them and seeing them all the time. And then yeah, I think they do a very good job of keeping the relationship professional and not letting emotion spill in to it. So I think from their learning experiences, I report directly into my dad for the marketing side, not renovation, sales, but marketing and does a good job of keeping it professional and separate. So I think that’s come from all the learnings that they’ve had. So I love it cut up I guess in short form. I love it.
Matt Knight 29:57
Awesome. All right, it seems like you know from The smiles that you got from both your dad and grandfather when when when you give that answer, it seems like it’s been a really good fit for everyone.
Harry Sunner 30:05
I’m smiling because we almost had a bit of a feud 10 minute before the podcast. So like glad she didn’t bring that up. She takes it, she takes it on the chin like a son as well.
Henny Sunner 30:16
So I think that I think that the thing people don’t realize is almost when you’re family, people always saying, Oh, you get the easy burgers. If anything, I feel like it’s the opposite, that you get the hardest hardest shoulder you get the hardest, most upfront blunt feedback and direction that is most of the time people don’t realize harsher than what most of the people in the organization get. So so that’s something that I guess is, I think there’s a lot of people who work in a family business, and they could probably relate to that, that you probably get the harshest feedback or the most straightforward, and that’s because that they want to be successful. And, and we’re all aligned on that vision. So end of the day, we know that and I know they’re doing it for the best intentions
Harry Sunner 31:02
Very, very high expectations, you know, we start from ourself, and then obviously, were going to trickle to, you know, I have very high expectations of her being successful. And the gratitude, we’re not really high gratitude family. So I’ve learned to the pat on the back and good job is important. You know, he only started doing this about five, six years ago. And prior to that it was never good enough, right? Or how do you be better, that’s really how I’ve been grown up. He’s been growing up in harsher climate for that. And so I tried to temper and learn, say, for this generation, it is the gratifications are important. Inspirations important. And it’s not always about good enough, not good enough, right? They can, I think that’s how I’m brought up, that doesn’t matter how high or how good of a goal you’ve achieved, it’s still not good enough, there’s always imperfections. And, you know, I’m used to that thick skin around that. But I’m always mindful that that’s not the case for everybody, and especially your coworkers and people around you, right, so you learn that overtime,
Matt Knight 32:10
Yeah, I mean, I’m going to try something a little different here and it’s not scripted. So you said you’ve been working on trying to figure out that gratitude piece
Joe Sunner 32:10
Well Matt, I don’t know if this is the right time to say that if he’s not the right to do you guys can edit this or sorry. Our family not this family, my family background is very, very aggressive. all round it, very aggressive. My dad was very aggressive. So I changed lot. And what they call that you know, with something that, you know, when you go to the doctor, they ask that if your family passed with a heart attack or cancer, because that’s in the genes. So I have in my genes that aggressiveness in my genes very strongly. I got a to measure myself, how much I change that genes or tried to be changed that. And he’s the same way she’s the same way aggressive, what there is nowhere near what’s my father because I tried to be changed that all the time. He said its never good enough, that comes in my genes. And you can’t ignore that. Right? At the same time that you know you all have to pick up that what what’s missed. Because your weaknesses is your growth. Your strenght is not your growth, your weaknesses is the growth because you can improve your weakness, that makes you grow. Either you’re doing the exercise or whatever you do. You need to improve the weeknesses to make it strength. So that’s what I tried. That’s why he said that, you know, the, last six years, seven years is happening. Yes, it’s majorities coming. And I’m working on myself that from last 50 years, how you can cool down the aggressiveness to make it right is very hard work that you know, but but I think I done that. But nobody can measure that. How I done that. Why I done that. Nobody’s gonna measure that. Not them and nobody thought it was on back. Right
Matt Knight 32:44
And that you maybe don’t talk to Harry as much as you normally do about how you feel about what he’s doing. Anything you want to say to Harry right now about how he’s running the business and and how he’s grown things over the last couple years.
Joe Sunner 34:56
No is not a couple of years or years that are not never no, he knows that you’ll never have to feel shy to say that, since he started walking, he starts helping me on the right way. He loves me a lot as well as well that he’s supporting me, right from the heart or physically that whatever he can do that he did that. And my business, since I’ve started the business he is the main part. Either he was 16 or not, he was the main part, he is the main part. I’m not shy to say that. I never siad that I never really shy to say that I did say that or not when a lot of times.
Matt Knight 35:39
So I’m gonna switch gears again, look at a little bit of the future. So where do you where and I’ll ask you first, Harry, where do you see the company in the next five to 10 years? What do you think, are some of the biggest challenges that might face the industry.
Harry Sunner 35:55
So obviously, is an industry as a whole, especially in the country and province, we have constraints in housing. And that’s just as an industry, economic climate, that is, you know, the immigration or how the country wants to grow and how the economies need to grow, which is housing needs and affordability, the energy compliances are coming stronger and stronger around the envelope. So when it comes down to our piece as a business, windows and doors, you know, we’re thriving into the future, our present and future opportunities are very ripe. But we have a lot of work to do to stay ahead of the curve, and be a strong foothold for building partners in the industry and we pride ourselves in the envelope. How do we drive innovation? How do we drive technology, the AI side is becoming a very integral part to how we merge that into our environment, the technology, robotics and automation is huge. You know, our teams, we have a large team of people working on that for the future state of automation, and how we remain strong in Edmonton as a manufacturing industry. Manufacturer is not big in this country there’s not a lot of things that are made products made and brought and sold in Canada and so how do we stay ahead of the curve or seven hundred people today we’re going to grow people we’re going to grow clients we’re going to grow the business we have very strong opportunities to be North America. So we’re working on how we can be that. Edmontonian, Alberta built company that can be as large as we think we can be and as strong as we think we can be. To envelope and windows and doors and and how that experience becomes the best, next to none than anybody in America states or competitors across any territory province or country like we we have it in us in Edmonton to be that company and as do many other businesses and manufacturing has a very good runway because as automation comes in, and as technologies come in, I think whether it’s China or overseas where manufacturing was that strongest point we have a stronger opportunity because they have access same robotics laborers in the component always now is going to differentiate your product being overseas or not overseas so I think any manufacturing this year any industry now has a little bit more level playing field. That’s all I see some of the future coming in
Matt Knight 38:58
And Joe you mentioning you’re a little bit less active in kind of the day to day on Durabuilt now. What things look like you are what things look like for you right now and what do you think the next three to five years looks like for you?
Joe Sunner 39:11
Well these peopled especially him they’re doing great job. I trust them, my involvement is very minimum. I did told them as well and I believe it. I cannot beat it their technology technology advanced thinking whatever you call at the same time. They can’t beat my experience because experience comes with the hardship, empty stomach and empty pocket can teach you a lot. Which I gone through. I my opinion is that you know as well long as you know, my health is there. I will give them my experience advice. Whatever it can be, I can do. They will be success. I know that I believe in them, believe on him. The successes they are doing hard work, with the smartness, that’s my advice to them all the time.
Matt Knight 40:33
much change in the potter, new things coming in. So another question I’d like to ask most people on this podcast too, is there kind of a book or a speaker or kind of a key moment in your life that has kind of changed the way you think it’s kind of a bit of an opportunity to either pass on a recommendation of a book, or pass on a lesson that you’ve had throughout throughout the way? What anything kind of stick out maybe thought it out and some people are thinking about it a little bit more?
Joe Sunner 41:03
Well, I don’t think so. I don’t have the answer for that, or this or that to me. That way I can go on through in my life. Empty Stomach and empty pocket teach me a lot. That’s all I can say that the I learnt a lot as we go and I learned, I don’t know, wherever, like, wherever we can learn, whereever we can see. That’s me. I don’t know.
Matt Knight 41:28
So kind of the power of grit and determination?
Joe Sunner 41:32
Sure.
Harry Sunner 41:34
Yeah, I think I can trace to I guess I’ll call it a turning point, pivot point, awakening, you know, roughly in about 2008. If it was about me, me working hard, windows and doors, trying to be winning yourself kind of lonely, you’re failing. And you know, who the ego needs to go. And how do you reach out and be vulnerable to reach out. And so I actually joined a fourm group at the time, one of my client partners, actually gave me the kind of drill on looking at trying to grow, you got, we had about a couple 100 people at the time, maybe 250 and you know I had 35 direct reports, thinking that was great and you’re just running 100 miles an hour, seven days a week. But I had no support mechanisms, I had no one to check me in on what’s real. And so the bottom line is, you’re removing the ego, being vulnerable and finding the reach out at any level of your business, whether you’re supplier shop, to manufacturing to whatever your business is, every business is important no matter what the size, but finding the people around you, anything that is a coach, support tool, to be vulnerable, and then move it forward from there and always be learning like, always, always be learning. And I get, you know, never be jealous of someone success. Learn from it, and find the ingredients. And every single person is gifted with something different than you have at any level. And once you kind of have your mind frame around that, whether it’s podcasts, whether it’s books, TV, speakers, forum groups, friends, my, my ingredients come from both all elements. I’m not a book reader, I have probably 50 books at home or probably read three, they look good on the shelf. But speakers, podcasts, network, reach out is very critical for any level of business. So that’s kind of really where that pivot point and and lastly, I’ll just say that, you know, there was a point where, just because you own the business, you don’t deserve to be the owner of the by the president or the CEO of a business. Sometimes you have to fire yourself, for the sake of others around you and your organization. If you’re not doing the right things for your clients, you write things for employees, and you’re at the helm, you got to look in the mirror and say to you, and if you that just because you own the business doesn’t give you a right to be president or CEO of your business. Either change, adapt and do the right things for your team members, for your customers in your business all the time. Or put someone else in there that can help you.
Matt Knight 44:40
Anything to add Henny
Henny Sunner 44:42
Well, I don’t know if he’s actually read three books either. So…
Harry Sunner 44:48
They were 10 pages each.
Henny Sunner 44:51
So a lot of my advice that I get comes from from Harry, as I go through. I’ve been through leadership jounry, we’re growing, and I’m, I’m taking on different teams and see what’s going on. So it think the big one for me, and I still, you know, this is something I’m growing is the team, you know, growing teams, people can do so much, you know, you think you can do everything, the people can do so much more. So you, if you grow a team, if you focus on the people, like we talked about, we’re in the window business, we’re in the manufacturing space, automation space, but we always talk about at the end of the day, we’re in the people business, you could have the best technology, everything’s going great, but you need great people at the helm of that wherever that is. So for me growing, growing teams and growing people, I’m putting a focus on that, that’s been really important. And then just working hard and doing things that you’re passionate about, Harry told me, you know, I was doing marketing manager role with a marketing coordinator title for our marketing team lead title for quite some time and just do the work and be passionate about what you do. Sometimes it’s not about the title, especially for the younger generation, so concerned about the title in this, sometimes just do the work and you’ll find areas you like, and you’ll naturally grow, you’ll get promoted, you’ll grow you’ll get you go, peers will see that people below you that work for you will see that. So it’s not about title. It’s do you enjoy coming in to your work every day? And if you don’t enjoy it, do you like the vision of where you’re going? Because not every day is great, right? Like some days suck some weeks suck in for them, some years suck, but the vision of where you want to be? Are you still, does that still excite you? I guess so. Yeah, I don’t know if that’s advice, I’ve just kind of copied what he said a little bit.
Matt Knight 46:53
I think they’re all different perspectives, I think it was a good add, there’s something to take from that to have. Both of you shared it in a slightly different way. But just about, you know, finding that passion and making sure you could be, you know, kind of the best that you are in that. But also making sure that you have that balance. Like you know, we all can’t work 12 hours a day, seven days a week forever. Some days, we might have to but you you’ve got to have that balance to kind of be able to get back to your family and get back to your friends and build that community around you. Final wrap up here, just wanted to thank you all for spending some time with us today and sharing some of your learnings and feedback growing as a as a family business, but also as a business family. The one thing I didn’t mention so far is that we are really excited to be working with the Sunner family as our signature family for this year. So ABFI has a signature event that we do where we help tell this story. And I can tell from your kind of the energy that the three of you have together that there’s going to be I think a lot of fun, but also a lot of learnings that will come out of this not only for the business family community that will come to the event, but for for the three of you and your extended family members as well.
Henny Sunner 48:14
Yeah, absolutely.
Joe Sunner 48:15
Thank you very much all of you guys starts in order to bringing us here. I really appreciate from my heart for all of you guys. That’s all I can say.
Harry Sunner 48:23
Ya know, we’re hounoured and feel pretty very appreciated that there’s a recognition for the for the, I guess the gratification of some hard work, it wasn’t expected. Neither do we, like I said, we don’t talk too much about the wins. We’re always talking about the gaps and mistakes. But once in a while, I think the ABFI that’s a very amazing way for some shared experience in a private family journey, organically grown, without any m&a and everything else. So we’re very honored to be part of this event. And thanks for having us today as well Matt appreciate it.
Henny Sunner 49:08
I’ll echo that, thanks Matt. Appreciate it.
Matt Knight 49:11
I think the last like the what you mentioned there about kind of getting those learnings from that forum group or wherever you happen to have it, you know that, you know, these types of events and these types of conversations are opportunities to have some of those insights that you’re not going to find in a book are not going to find in a magazine of you know, here’s how you, here’s how you can do some of those things over here some of the questions that will come up,
Harry Sunner 49:32
Yeah, live learnings in person and war wounds stories. You know, they they, and then generation to generation, they change. And as as the time goes on, you know, lots of changing in the world of doing things and we’re kind of lucky there’s an evolution revolution that’s carried on and there’s a couple more siblings that she has hopefully, that will continue to strive and thrive. Get alongside and yeah, she had no choice it was an ultimatum. She was the eldest, so if you don’t do it, then you won’t even be in the house.
Henny Sunner 50:10
Getting kicked out of the nightly dinners, so.
Matt Knight 50:14
Awesome, well, I’m looking forward to learning more as we go on this journey together. And thank you again for joining us.
Harry Sunner 50:19
Yeah, thank you for having us. Appreciate it very much.
