EP19 Leading with Radical Love: Sean Schoenberger, Sunco Communications & Installations

Speakers

Speaker 1: Matt Knight

Speaker 2: Sean Schoenberger

‍

Matt Knight  00:00

Welcome to Table Talk The show where business families share candid stories of growth, leadership and legacy. I'm Matt Knight, your host and executive director with the Alberta Business Family Institute. Today's guest leads a company whose work you hear every time a call connects to a network and stays up, but rarely see Sunco Communications and Installations started around a kitchen table. So very, very appropriate for this podcast called Table Talk back in the 2000s. 25 years later, it's a national integrator serving over 16,000 clients across Canada with telecom cloud and managed IT solutions, all while staying proudly family owned today.

‍

I'm joined by Sean Schoenberger, who joined Sunco in the field and rose up through sales and operations before becoming president in 2020 under his watch, Sunco acquired Isosceles Business Systems in 2022, Zayo Canada's on premise PBX businesses in 2024 and pushing the firm into the East and expanding across Canada, looking at SD, Wan and SASE services. 

‍

So Sean, welcome to Table Talk. Can we maybe start by you telling us what some of those terms I used in our introduction mean, and telling us a little bit more, maybe, in plain English, what Sunco does today.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  01:22

Hi, Matt, I know it's great to be on the podcast. Definitely can share some of those terms that nobody really knows. The SAS, I mean Software as a Service, and typically, if you're hearing it on a verbal communication people SAS is, would be the the short phrase of that. So that's terminology that unless you're in the managed service or telecom space, you're probably not going to know. SDWan was primarily 15 years ago, was WAN solution that was only serviced by the carriers, and now it's really opened up with different appliances to layer on over the internet for security defined Wide Area Networks, which is a big play today, obviously, with cybersecurity and what have you. That's a driving factor so your information is a little bit more secure. Crossing over the internet.

‍

Matt Knight  02:24

Nice. Okay, and then maybe jump into kind of the 62nd elevator pitch of sunco. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  02:28

The elevator pitch of sunco. I mean, we strive to make business communications easier for our clients. The primary focus for us is you shouldn't have to think about how you pick up the phone, whether it's on a computer, on a cell phone, what have you, and how you deal with somebody. It should be easy, seamless and no issue. And that's right from our managed service side on it to the telecom side, if it's delivering the internet or the voice service over the internet. 

‍

Matt Knight  03:02

So really, just kind of simplifying communication for people. So they just take it almost, take it for granted. They know that it works and they know that it's there,

‍

Sean Schoenberger  03:11

Correct. Yes, absolutely. I think unfortunately, Telecom has a bad rap for itself today, so it's trying to up everybody's expectations to you, shouldn't dislike calling your telecom company. 

‍

Matt Knight  03:26

Yeah, you should have a good relationship with him, and want to have those interactions. So maybe let's go back to the beginning. So I understand your parents founded Sunco in the 2000s and your dad kind of had some experience in the trade in his father's shop. What can you tell us about that? What kind of vision did your your father or grandfather share that kind of started the company out. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  03:48

So it was actually my uncle, your uncle, okay, so and my cousin, however, in saying that my uncle is also my godfather, okay, to make that a little bit more tangled even. And then my cousin was in it as well. So he had started the business prior to becoming sunco. And then sunco became sunco communication installation limited in September, 1 of 2000 at that point, my uncle had retired, and my cousin was, was an owner of it, and then I became a partner later, which has worked out fantastic. We have a great relationship. I've known him for several things growing up: him giving his parents were my god parents. 

‍

So we did several different family activities. I was out at their lake lots. Then when I was 14, given the relationship there, I actually started running cable with them in the summer. So I want to say that was summer of grade nine. I started I. Like, essentially working in the telecom industry. So every summer since then, and that kind of pushed me into telecom at NAIT, and I won't say what year that is, and graduated from that, and then started working full time. At that point, we were doing installations, and still doing lots of cabling and stuff. And moving forward, I knew that I didn't really want to be crawling in ceilings for the rest of my life. So it was trying to deliver a path on, on our business model, to make it so that we everybody can achieve probably what they're looking for, and stating that it's I would have never expected where we are today.

‍

Matt Knight  05:50

Interesting. Okay, so maybe let's go back to when you're kind of, you know, summer grade nine, working, you know, laying cable. When did you know that you would kind of join the business, or did you, you know, did you kind of think, Hey, I'm going to do something like this, or like, walk us through that process?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  06:10

I'm not sure when I actually figured that out. The summer job just kept coming, and I loved working with my uncle and my cousin. So it was kind of a no brainer that when I finished grade 12, that I was going to go to NAIT and take telecom and then do start working with them when it was over. Obviously there, there's lots of opportunities in that space, but I didn't even look anywhere else. 

‍

Matt Knight  06:41

So maybe walk us through that path, a little bit through the company, from kind of cable puller to sales to ops to President, like, what did your path look like?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  06:51

So my path was definitely a cable puller. I think there was probably a spot in there where I got stuck in a roof with a with a screw, and it was a solid ceiling, so it was in a, like a little crawl space, 

‍

Matt Knight  07:06

okay

‍

Sean Schoenberger  07:06

And I think I freaked out a little bit because I couldn't get back out, yeah, with a screw stuck to my belt.

‍

Matt Knight  07:15

Nerve wracking for sure. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  07:16

At that point, I think I realized that I didn't want to run cable. So let's figure out how to do something different. So we started. I took some training. We did contract work for the major telcos to start doing installations for them. Whether it be, well, at that point, your only option really was on premise, PBX. And so I did train that way, which was great. I quite enjoyed it, doing what I do, the satisfaction, because you'd complete it and a day, maybe a week, or whatever the case may be, and you can look back and go up job well done, or hopefully, that's what you think. Anyways.

‍

Matt Knight  07:55

Yeah. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  07:55

And then when it went from, from a technician, I started learning some sales and doing some sales engineering courses, still mostly doing all that stuff on the contract basis to the major telcos. And we had added a couple more people at that point doing they were more doing the installs, and I was assisting to a certain degree, but it came to a point where we probably had eight to 10 people that well for doing all these installs, why don't we start selling these products ourselves? In which case, that was a huge shift for us. And obviously that started some of the growth they came came about after, because at that point we started growing people, and then the sales started to come. And obviously, now you're servicing your own customers. 

‍

On top of that we still were doing the contract basis to the telcos, which we still do some of that today. And couple years forward, your sales kept increasing. You're looking at new stuff. And then, really, I would say seven years ago, when 2020 so I'll be 2017 ish, we tried to supplement implementing what's called EOS, which is your Entrepreneurial Operating System for another acronym, and really gives you purpose, direction, values and how to get to certain areas.

‍

We picked a target that you don't know how, how you're going to get there. You just want to get there. And it's been an amazing hockey stick bro since then. Huge accountability within the business process itself. And I can't say enough about it, we used a facilitator. 

‍

It well, let me take one step back there. So we for the first 6-9 months, we probably tried self facilitating, and that did not go well. It's tough. So we went, we got a facilitator, certified implementer for Eos, and it was, it's been fantastic along the way. It certainly teaches, yeah, that there's ceilings to be had. What happens difficult conversations. Because, just because this person did fantastic in their job, when you hit a gross revenue of X dollar amount, and I don't think it matters, what that dollar amount is. Unfortunately, they're not having fun anymore, and they're not doing the business any favors either. So it's if the core values fit, you can probably find somewhere in the business for them to reside, and it's putting somebody in there that'll allow you to get off that plateau and keep going.

‍

Matt Knight  11:00

Yeah. How do you facilitate that growth for yourself and for the people around you and those that the values fit. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  11:06

And I joke today that at some point the company I'll grow what I can do.

‍

Matt Knight  11:12

That should be the hope, though.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  11:13

Yeah, absolutely. And at some point when people look at me, I mean, they look at me today and think my ideas are strange, but when they really think my ideas are strange. Maybe it's time to bring somebody in that can move it. Maybe we'll when we get stagnant and our growth projections aren't where they should be. I'm not against replacing myself, and I think everybody should look at it that way. Nothing's forever. I love what I do, don't get me wrong, but I also don't want to stop what's happening at Sunco just because I love what I do. I'm sure I can find somewhere within the organization where I can still be a fit. It's just getting me to that spot and letting the company do their thing, we've grown to a point where there's pushing 70 people in our organization, which is lots of families. And I think you have to look at it that way, that I mean, we outgrew the having, we have lots of schoenbergers in the group, yeah? But obviously, at some point, yeah, they don't all want to be in telecom. I'm not sure why.

‍

Matt Knight  12:25

Fill the organization with them.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  12:26

so it, it's, it's getting there and having fun. 

‍

Matt Knight  12:32

And so let's maybe think about what was kind of, maybe your, you know, as you went through different levels of leadership in the organization and grew the business to a different place. What was kind of your first oh wow, or oh shit moment within the business?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  12:50

So anybody that knows - that has ever done a DISC profile, I'm a hard D and that is surprising to a lot of people, given I've had to learn along the way that to lead and manage people successfully, that is not being a hard D is not the way to go about it, because people don't like being told what to do, and you're not going to grow your business that way. 

‍

Matt Knight  13:18

It can be challenging for certain people in the organization, if you act that way, for sure.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  13:23

So that was probably the biggest one, is learning, don't it's not a rule by what I say. It's come with ideas, and let's, let's figure this out together. Yeah, there's, there's no idea that shouldn't be untouched. That's how we grow. My ideas are, by far, not always the best. So bring your ideas. Let's look at using that. So that's probably where that started, and that was probably my first huge learning curve. If you do it this way, people aren't going to want to work for you really.

‍

Matt Knight  13:54

Yeah. And sometimes you need to bend your natural tendencies to do what's best for the organization and for your teams around you too. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  14:01

Absolutely. 

‍

Matt Knight  14:02

Yeah. So how did you know your summer jobs and the different jobs that you did throughout the business as you were growing up, really help prepare you for the leadership role?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  14:14

Well, luckily, we were everybody was open to the fact that I went and started going to conferences and listening to people speak at very young in my career, and that's potentially where I learned most of the different avenues on where to filter some of the D tech tendencies, you will call it and what have you. I wouldn't say there's any one spot, but it's certainly conferences and going and listening to people speak like I know you. You're a valuable speaker out there, doing different talks at different stuff, and it's if you can get one key point that's great. I mean, if you can get more than one on any talk you listen to, and take that away. Right? It's an awesome speaker, in my opinion. Yeah, if somebody, if you're going into a conference and you're thinking, I need to come away with 80 action items, you're probably going there for the wrong reasons. 

‍

Matt Knight  15:14

Yep, that's fair. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  15:16

And that's sort of where that led me to is, and that's where I learned probably most of my my talks. I certainly joined the executive committee as well earlier on in my career, the huge believer in peer groups, having a good facilitator in that peer group and having one on one coaching, they're they're not, certainly not to be your your friends, because some of those conversations, they were very blunt about some of my ideas, 

‍

Matt Knight  15:50

Yeah 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  15:51

That potentially you're not getting internally.

‍

Matt Knight  15:54

And the value of those peers going through similar things and be able to provide you with that feedback. That's a little bit less objective sometimes, or a little bit less objective, is so valuable. So let's maybe transition into one of the other kind of tricky dynamics in businesses, particularly in family businesses, which is kind of the family chemistry side. So Sunco is led by yourself and then Mike, who's the CEO, who's also your cousin that we heard about, how do you, how do you guys work together? How do you divide roles and keep decisions kind of clear?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  16:29

EOS was really a huge portion of being able to develop those roles and responsibilities. So we're very good at keeping in our own paths as well as I mean, we have weekly meetings to make sure that we're always on the same page. That's part of the EOS structure as well. Okay, so it's looking after. Mike does a lot of the sales and the culture side of the business, whereas, being the president, I look after, well still some of the sales, given what I do, but also the operational and and I have the, I get the lucky P L on on my shoulders as well, to make sure that the company is running effectively so but I would say that we're there's we still overlap. I value his opinions, and I think he does the same for me. It's running ideas back and forth off each other to say, hey, what do you think about this before you go to the leadership team sometimes? And what have you it's we have this idea. And definitely, if it's crazy, say, well, shelve it for six months, 12 months, and maybe it's not crazy in 12 months. But, yeah, so yeah, we have you hear good and bad things about family business. I would say that Mike would be right up there, cousin, best friend.

‍

Matt Knight  17:58

Those could be my next question. Sounds like you were quite close growing up, and how has kind of working and owning and leading a business together changed that relationship or enhanced it?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  18:08

Yeah, I would say it's enhanced it for sure. Don't get me wrong, we have some difficult conversations. 

‍

Matt Knight  18:16

Yep.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  18:17

Right. Like there's nothing that goes by that says and we have conversations, and he's like, he tells me that, well, when it comes to this stuff, maybe just sit there and don't speak. That's fine, because I say the same thing to him. I'm like, operation because, because we joke between each other, he's the soft soul, and I'm the hard one with the D, so I think that part knowing, knowing our strengths, has also made that stronger. 

‍

Matt Knight  18:48

Yeah So came up, some of my research of the company before this, there is this concept of radical love that came up in some of the stuff. Well, can you explain that to me? How does that show up in the operations of your business, where your business? Where did that come from? Loaded question. Maybe?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  19:09

It is definitely a loaded question. For sure, we treat everybody as family. It's part of our core values. I believe that, like I said earlier, we're an open book, that anybody in the organization can really come ask me anything happy to answer them. I mean, unless we're looking at something that we've had to sign an NDA for, that I obviously can't talk about, yep, we open door policy right from I mean, if somebody internally comes and asks something that's financial on the books that they're just interested in, more than happy to have those conversations. I know some organizations don't, 

‍

Matt Knight  19:52

Yep.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  19:52

But I think being able to share all of that information kind of answers some. Some of your questions on that, because if you're not a little radical, you're not probably doing some of those initiatives. Lots of people have closed book policies and what have you, I think, if you're talking radical love, it's can come out in so many facets of any sort of work culture. I mean, you could or argue that the family culture that we strive to get, and obviously it's a big push, because when you say family, you probably think one city. I mean, now we're multiple cities across Canada, yeah, so it's trying to engage and make everybody feel like a family. 

‍

So we do every Thursday part of our culture. Mike does 30 minutes with Mike, and we bring in speakers onto the 30 minutes with Mike regarding culture. We also, in order to get to know people better, people sign up to say and they'll be 15 questions with Sean, okay, and so that they know, and we bring up roles and stuff, so that maybe they don't know what I do. Yeah, they just think they see me travel and I go say hi to people in different cities and what have you, but it's trying to get more personal when you're not face to face.  Yeah, no, and that can be a challenging thing too. We'll get into some questions around that a little bit. So with that kind of relationship you have with Mike and that radical love and the family side of the business, how do you kind of keep the business conversations from spilling into your weekends and evenings. You know, if you're trying to watch the hockey game together, go out to the lake together, how do you divide that?  I'm 100% unless we're traveling for work. It's eight to five. 

‍

Matt Knight  21:55

Okay.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  21:57

My wife came in the business. Veronica, has been great. She works in the admin team. Obviously has nothing to do with my role, and that's by design, but I don't talk about it. I go home after work, and it's something that you certainly have to work on, because it doesn't come naturally, I would think to most people, especially, I mean, I get asked the occasional time, because Veronica will know that I know the answer, instead of me going through the proper channels, she might skip them. And so it's and to a certain degree, I'm okay with that, but I do keep strict eight to five. Don't I said, unless I'm traveling for work, and that's a little different, or Mike and I travel together, and we'll talk business over dinner, or whatever the case may be, but I go out to his Lake lot, and we don't have time to talk business. We're quading or something to going boating, whatever the case may be, it's not, not an issue. As far as that goes. I think he's, he's figured that out.

‍

Matt Knight  23:09

So setting up those healthy boundaries and sticking to them, that's right. So let's maybe zoom out a bit and go through kind of what's going on in the industry right now. You know, maybe, before we get into there, you know, Sun sunco is a, you know, smaller, family owned business. You know, the telecom business is typically huge, publicly traded giants, some of them have family roots as well. But how does that give you an advantage?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  23:36

An advantage? I believe we goes back to us trying to give the personal touch, which is one of our our values, and it's I believe that trying to think, I'm not sure, any of the major competitors of ours that are all answered by a voicemail, we strictly believe in having somebody Answer the phone and saying hello, and that might be Bonjour or Hello, depending on where you're calling from. Being a multilingual company now as well, we're happy to make sure that that happens right across the country to see fit for anybody. And our goal is to have a live answer at any point whenever you phone or office, and I think that's a huge differentiator for us.

‍

Matt Knight  24:23

So what's, you know, since you've joined the business, or maybe the last couple of years? What do you think is the biggest technology shift you've ever noticed, or ever, you know, that's hit the industry? 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  24:34

There's been, I've been in the industry for quite some time, so there's been a few. 

‍

Matt Knight  24:41

I mean, could be VoIP, it could be cloud, it could be AI, it could be, yeah. I mean, mobile. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  24:47

You're probably, wow. I never thought about it that way, yeah. So when I first started, we carried a pager, yeah. Now, now I'm answering people through our ERP on my cell phone, which is probably smarter than the computer I had back when I was looking at numbers showing up on my pager. So that I would say, I mean, depending on who you're talking to you, you could argue that that might have been just as large of a paradigm shift as going to AI today. 

‍

Matt Knight  25:20

Yeah, and if not, I almost feel like it's more drastic. But we don't know where we're gonna end up on AI yet.

‍

Sean Schoenberger  25:28

That's right, yeah, we're just at the start of the, really at the AI journey today. Yeah. So, yeah, that. I mean, that probably is one of them, the, I mean, I was here when we went from on premise to cloud, huge shift, obviously, the our AI discussion now that probably in the last year or two, well, chatGPT gave it the big push when it It launched for public use. 

‍

Matt Knight  25:55

Yeah

‍

Sean Schoenberger  25:56

Right. And, and now for businesses, now that they're getting the policies and what have you. For large business underway, they're starting to use it more effectively, and what it can do is really out of this world. I'm not even sure that we've touched the surface of that yet. So, yeah, it's pretty exciting. I'm a huge tech nerd. When you call me, you can reach me on my watch, my phone, my iPad, my computer. It's everywhere. Obviously, some people don't want that. Me being a tech guy, I just, I love all that stuff. So it's seeing where we'll go in five years. I can't even imagine that in my head right now. 

‍

Matt Knight  26:36

It's crazy. So being kind of that tech nerd, how do you evaluate shiny new tech when it comes into the business. You know, whether it's copilot or edge or whatever it is, how do you kind of balance your maybe personal desire for that technology adoption with kind of risk and culture and family?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  26:52

So luckily, Mike is also a tech nerd. Okay? We usually play with it ourselves first, I have it on board with letting me play with certain tools and what have you. And it went as far as our ERP is called ConnectWise, and they have their own AI built in within it, called sidekick. They launched and I asked our IT department. I'm like, Can I play with this? And then I showed them what it could do one once I started getting in there and playing with the tools. And I know that's not my role, so it all went through it. And I'm like, I don't even they mentioned me when we were deploying it as a team, but I certainly said I was like it. I don't care if my name is not on it. It's a tool that could help our our teams get better service and the customer experience for for our customers significantly better and improved. Just how it can say that, looking back, and you had to put in a ticket for a phone not working for X reason, and it'll you ask it, and it'll be like, well, this happened six months ago, 12 months ago, to try it again, and if that doesn't fix it, it gives you like, five different other options on how to fix the problem in the span of 30 seconds. 

‍

Matt Knight  27:17

Yes. Wow. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  28:22

I don't even know how to explain stuff like that. It's just the tools that are coming out, or the possibilities are endless.

‍

Matt Knight  28:31

Yeah. And lots of people, you know, their fear about AI is it's going to reduce, you know, job opportunities. Have you seen anything like that at sunco yet? Have you said, you know, we can get rid of seven of our 70 people because we have aI now. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  28:44

No, I think it'll enhance what they do. We do say at Sunco. I mean, if it's, if it's a mundane, repeatable task, let's automate it and have AI do it for you. In most cases, they'd rather be doing something else. I know. I know I don't want to compare two spreadsheets that change week to week, and that's eight hours a day. I'm looking at a spreadsheet and looking at another spreadsheet, going, what's different? Yeah, when? When something can do it for me in five minutes, and I can do something that I enjoy? 

‍

Matt Knight  29:18

Yeah

‍

Sean Schoenberger  29:19

That. I think that's a better way to look at it, then it's going to replace me, assuming you embrace it, yeah? It'll enhance what you do.

‍

Matt Knight  29:28

Yeah, when all the research that we're doing on it is really about, you know, AI here is here to augment us and make us be able to do more of what we're good at and what we want to so it's almost more of like enhancing that purpose. So let's dive into some of the acquisitions that I talked about in the intro. Hopefully I even said the company names right, but there's Isosceles and Zayo. Why acquire instead of, you know, build these things internally?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  29:56

It's a fair question. The isosceles acquisition we tried to create an MSP within our organization organically, and the growth wasn't there, given our significant base in the telecom industry already that we couldn't meet our customers needs. Okay? So it was, how do we get somewhere quick to achieve what we're looking for from a customer experience standpoint, without telling them that we can't help you. So looking at the expertise that isosceles had luckily, I mean, it came across from a partnership that I know, and they're like, hey, they're looking and it was just an introduction that way. And the team members at isosceles that came on board. They're just such great people. Yes, I go down there and visit and, yeah, I can't, can't say enough their values are in the right spot. It's making a connection, right? 

‍

Matt Knight  30:59

Yeah. So business wise and values wise and cultural wise. It all aligned and made sense. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  31:04

That's right, yeah, 

‍

Matt Knight  31:05

Nice. And then, so, you know, expanding into Ontario and eastern Canada is often a really difficult thing for family businesses, especially Western Canadian based family businesses, and they often struggle with that a lot, regardless of the market. You know, there's, you know, big players out there, wherever you are, but what was kind of your strategy to successfully move into some of these markets?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  31:29

So we had, we were in those markets before, on a small degree, we didn't have and we contracted it out. We didn't have many people there doing it. So it was figuring out a path on how we could get there faster. And to your point, I had people telling me, Don't open an office there. Organically. We've tried it. It doesn't work, and I heard that from several people.

‍

So the way to look at it is from an acquisition perspective. How can we get it that they already have the people there, the footprints there, there's customers there, and hopefully there's brand recognition.

‍

 So we luckily, again, the Zayo acquisition opportunity came up. Something we looked at the turnaround was probably, I think, we, September to March, end of March, which, for an acquisition, was incredibly quick through due diligence and what have you I mean, it wasn't a full acquisition. So to your point, we were just taking their PBX on premise based business. 

‍

So we were only getting operational staff, which made it a little easier, because we didn't need to. We weren't overlapping any roles, really. We were bringing 16 people on board that we needed to service the customers they had today, and since then, it's allowed us to grow our own base in Ontario, Quebec, the Northwest Territories, and even going into the Maritimes.

‍

Matt Knight  33:20

So when we, you know, culture often kind of feeds into, you know, leadership. How do you, you know, you know, what's maybe your leadership style, and how does it contrast with with kind of Mike and his dad's?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  33:40

I think our leadership styles are probably similar at this point on. I mean, I don't think any of us think micromanaging is the answer. It's letting people have their full potential. Don't put them in a box and say, don't leave the box. You can put them in a box, but see how high you can jump out of the box. Of the box. And I think everybody has that philosophy. I mean, Mike and I, for sure, going back to my uncle, back in the day, Uncle Paul, it was, I mean, if you're going from point A to Z, he didn't care how you got there, just as long as you can get there. And it looks nice, because at that point it was cabling, so it was as long as I can look up, and it looks neat. Yeah, it doesn't matter how you get to the end result. I mean, his goal is just to get there. So I think his leadership style was similar in some ways. It came from there as well. 

‍

Matt Knight  34:40

Yeah, no, that makes sense. So, you know, and sunco has a, you know, large role, kind of, in the community where you operate, you know, you, you kind of mentioned your, your experience at Nate, but you guys are, you know, big supporters of Nate. And then I think the other one that came up was the Ontario Hockey League. How do those come up? Why are they strategic? Like, what, why do you choose to invest and support the community in those ways?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  35:04

So, I mean, NAIT a big one. We all went to NAIT. I think giving back to the community is great and so, so, yeah, we're gonna, we're starting a sponsorship with NAIT as well, coming this September, with some different I think there's three or four we're looking at from uh, if certain grades, what have you, as far as that goes to help people out that are going to need to to make sure that they can go over the next year, or maybe even the first year. 

‍

Yeah, from an OHL side, just lucky, I guess I'm a huge hockey person. I've played my entire life. I coach. I still coach today, both my boys play hockey, and we're definitely a hockey family, and I think everybody , for the most part, sees that in our organization. And from the OHL perspective, I happened to meet their marketing person at an event, and they didn't have a telecom MSP partner, okay, so I was like, oh, let's chat. And we were trying to grow the Ontario business. Oddly enough, that conversation had started probably a little bit after the conversation with Zayo started, so it was all the pieces were really falling into, hey, we can really get the sunco brand out there, instead of the Zayo brand teaming up with the OHL, which is, I didn't even probably realize how big the OHL is in Ontario until we started doing business with them with the team, and it's such a great organization. They give back to charities and what have you as well. 

‍

So I've done a couple charity golf tournaments with the OHL and such. And I think the opportunities are just great. We do also sponsor some kids sports teams and what have you as well, to try and try and give back. I do think giving back to the community. 

‍

And I mean, part of our goals within EOS is environmental, social, and governance. So we're looking at doing some different things, and even this upcoming year, which actually will be first heard here as outside of the leadership team that comes to our next fiscal year, potentially, we're going to do two volunteer days off. So you just have to show us that you have , that I'm volunteering at XYZ company, and you get paid to go volunteer there for the day from sunco. 

‍

Matt Knight  37:57

That's wonderful. So you know some of these other organizations that you've acquired or work with may or may not have been family businesses, but as you grow, as you get outside of, you know, the one office where, where you and Mike might have been all the time, how do you keep that, that family feel and that family culture ingrained in in all of these other offices and companies?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  38:21

I think that I alluded back to the 30 minutes of Mike earlier. I think that's really part of it. I travel to try and go and meet all of our staff. I think seeing people, not just over video, but face to face, I think, is still the personal touch. I think that goes a long ways. There's always different ways to look at things, but I think knowing people in your organization, instead of them being a number, makes a huge difference from a values standpoint, like they're just these people love what they do as well, and most of them doing it for several years, if they're part of something bigger, everybody enjoys it and they love what they do. 

‍

Matt Knight  39:12

Okay. And is that where Sunco fun co family came from?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  39:19

Sunco fun co, Sunco, fun co, yeah, we were actually just playing around with, I'm actually surprised at that. I didn't realize that was outside of our office space. To be honest, we created that internally, yeah, just as a, as a fun let's do something, post it. What have you. I mean, some of us have sunco fun co email addresses and stuff. So we have a kind of a test Microsoft domain that that's, I think it kind of like our first dot last name @sunco.ca and I want to say my first dot last name at Suncofundco.ca, or what have you. It's just something we like to have fun with. And, and, yeah, it's, I think it all started. The idea came from somebody on our MSP team, I want to say, and great, great idea, and being able to share and, and how you can do those things. And now I believe we've even started the sunco, fun co is hashtag and nice, and you'll see it on social media to add to it. And it does make me chuckle when I see it, knowing where it started.

‍

Matt Knight  40:27

Yeah, I can tell you were a little surprised by that question, too. So we're moving something called the lightning round. So we got five questions, one super like, five to 10 word answers, not a lot of thought rapid fire. So you know, first tech or geek toy that you bought with your own paycheck?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  40:51

Palm Pilot.

‍

Matt Knight  40:52

Okay, dress code, suit and tie or jeans, jeans and company, golf shirt?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  40:58

Jeans and company golf shirt.

‍

Matt Knight  41:00

Fiber splice kit, cloud dashboard, sunco fun co email address, anything else? Favorite tool you can't live without?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  41:09

Copilot.

‍

Matt Knight  41:11

Interesting, um, best one sentence advice, um, your cousin Mike ever gave you?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  41:23

He was a wealth of knowledge. Look at where you start, not not at where you end.

‍

Matt Knight  41:34

Next city you want to see a sunco branch in?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  41:42

Vancouver. 

‍

Matt Knight  41:43

Vancouver. Okay, so let's transition and kind of wrap up with some legacy and lessons and kind of some future looking conversations. So how are you and Mike, maybe grooming the next generation, whether it's family or non family, to kind of lead the next chapter of Sunco?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  42:03

I think that's where Nate comes in, is bringing youth into the organization, yep, and that'll help us grow for years to come.

‍

Matt Knight  42:14

Yep, that makes sense. And are you kind of encouraging, you know, your kids, or your nieces or nephews to go into a similar program and follow a similar path?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  42:23

Yeah. I mean, I'm certainly open to my kids. My kids are 11 and 13, so they're not quite looking at that path yet. Mike has one, and he worked actually summers with us for a couple of years. Okay, so I love to see him back at some point. A great, great person, certainly from a value perspective, Pierce is what a value he could bring to the organization. So we'll see if he got, he managed to come back. He wanted to find his own way first, which is completely fair.

‍

Matt Knight  42:53

And pretty normal for family businesses as well. You want, you want that identity piece sometimes. How does a cousin partnership kind of change about how you think about ownership or long term perspective?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  43:10

I think we chat about long term perspective quite often, and being able to always be in a spot where we can help along the way, even as we get older, I think we've chatted about creating a board to be able to facilitate that, and maybe at some point we just sit on a board in order to kind of keep that going. 

‍

Matt Knight  43:36

Okay? And then if you think maybe five years out, and I know five years with AI is a whole lot of time. What do you think kind of some of the biggest external threats or and biggest external opportunities are for sunco

‍

Sean Schoenberger  43:50

External threats would be, I mean, who knows where AI is going, Microsoft, Google, those would probably be your big ones. Are they gonna manage to take over the telecom industry, maybe? But, I mean, I'm not sure either. And then, from an opportunity standpoint, I think that AI can help our customers and our experience, as well as our internal teams, be able to just go to the next level. How do I get somewhere where I didn't even fathom I could be at AI can potentially get you there? 

‍

Matt Knight  44:34

Yep, so really help find those opportunities and improvement areas. So maybe the top lesson that you would share with whether it's a student at NAIT or U of A or a next generation family member just starting out, what advice would you give to them?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  44:51

There's, there's lots. It would certainly lead with your heart, I think would probably be one of the, one of the biggest ones. I being natural and being yourself. I think people see that, and they want to work with you when you're just yourself, if you're just suit and a tie and you're a completely different person outside of where you are. People notice that

‍

Matt Knight  45:18

Makes sense. Maybe book or book that's most changed or shaped how you think about business or the world, or  top book recommendation?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  45:39

There's quite a few EOS books that I've read, and I really think probably one of the best along the ways would be Atomic Habits. I think would be great. 

‍

Matt Knight  45:49

Yeah, that one and traction are both pretty, pretty popular one there, for sure. So maybe first, you know, if you were starting out again and think, you know, getting back into, you know, Sean, age 25 what advice would you give yourself?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  46:09

So I say this within the organization, as well as don't look at the first, first step on the stairwell, see, see where the ending goes, and try and work backwards.

‍

Matt Knight  46:23

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And then maybe further thinking or further reaching. What kind of legacy do you hope that the Schoenberger family or Sunco leaves?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  46:37

I want to see Sunco run past my generation, realistically, and I hope that we were looking to set it up that way so that it'll just keep there's families that rely on on us as a business, and it's trying to make sure that just because I'm not here doesn't mean that that 35-40 other families, give or take, should have to go find a new place to work if they love what they do so and the reason I say 35-40 is because I mean family run business. We actually have some husband and wives partners. What have you think about working within Sunco as well.

‍

Matt Knight  47:23

And maybe final question here to wrap up. So if you have anything else you want to add, it'd be good place to kind of put it in as well. But you know, what would be your advice to someone joining a family business or going to work for their uncle or their cousin for the first time?

‍

Sean Schoenberger  47:38

I think the biggest part would be setting the ground rules of whatever your business hours are, that that's when you talk business. You're out of family reunion. Don't, don't bring up job number 1234, maybe ask them, How is lawns looking? Or ask the person, Hey, how's the family certainly don't.  Leave work at work.

‍

Matt Knight  48:06

Yep. So again, that is a healthy boundary, coming back to that 100% yes. So Sean, I want to thank you very much for coming on the show today and sharing kind of how your family, has scaled this telecom integrator into a national player without kind of losing that heart and that radical love and that sunco fun co culture that makes you fun and unique. 

‍

Listeners, if Sean's insights on acquisitions and culture and next generation leadership and you know the piece of love in the business really sparked your interest, feel free to learn more about sunco and ABFI in the show notes. 

‍

I think for me today, some of the takeaways from the episode really is just about, you know, the power of collaborating and working with people openly. You know, that kind of proactive ability to set boundaries so you can keep work at work and home at home, and then, you know, the value of those peer networks, and thinking about things like like boards and succession and legacy, all which are really close to ABFI is heart and really what we do on a day to day basis. 

‍

So I want to thank you for sharing with us today, and for that alignment to kind of our mission, and just really happy to see kind of the growth that Sunco has had as a family business in Alberta and across Western Canada. 

‍

So if you enjoyed the episode, you can follow Table Talk to stay up to date on episodes. You know, if you want to connect, you can send me an email at matt.knight@ualberta.ca You can follow us on LinkedIn, and you can learn more about ABFI and the University of Alberta www.abfi.ca once again, I'm Matt Knight. Today we're joined by Sean, with Sunco. Thank you for joining Table Talk. We'll see you next time. 

‍

Sean Schoenberger  49:44

Thank you very much, Matt. Appreciate it. 

‍