EP13 Family Values Driving Business Growth: Angela Santiago, The Little Potato Company

Speakers

Speaker 1: Matt Knight

Speaker 2: Angela Santiago

Matt Knight  00:00

In today's episode, we're going to hear more about the Little Potato Company. We're going to hear from Angela, the co-founder and CEO, about really the success that they've had growing a little company with little potatoes into a big company with little potatoes. We're going to hear about how they first started their family venture on a small farm just outside of Edmonton. We're going to hear about how they've used their personal and family values to grow a business and grow a business family, and really talk about how this entrepreneurial vision has grown into a pretty large agricultural organization across North America, with a lot of focused leadership that has gone around the dynamics and power of business families, and really looked at, you know, how you can use those values to grow, and really looking at how you can continue to improve through innovation and new ideas to become a better company, but also a better business family. 

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Well, welcome to Table Talk. Today, we're thrilled to be sitting down with Angela Santiago, co-founder and CEO of the little potato company. As you know, Table Talk explores the stories and success behind business families and their journeys. Today, we're going to dive a little bit more into this remarkable family journey and talk about some of this success, success and, you know, kind of struggles and opportunities that they've had a long way. 

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So to start out with, we want to kind of dive into really, kind of what started this idea and how it, you know, kind of transformed into this now beloved brand that we see just about everywhere. 

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So Angela, welcome for those of you, for those unfamiliar with the little potato company, could 

you maybe give us an idea of what or give us an overview of what makes little potatoes special?

Angela Santiago  01:50

Got it? Well, thank you. It's a pleasure being here. I love talking about business, but in particular, I love talking about family business. So I am grateful to be here today. 

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So I started the company with my dad in 1996, so probably about 29 years ago. Both my parents were immigrants to Canada. They came at completely different times. And the reason why I tell you that is because I think there is a sort of entrepreneurship that comes with immigration to a new country when you don't know the language, and you've got to start all over from scratch. So this definitely is a story of starting from scratch. 

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And so both my parents, very entrepreneurial, had many business ideas. So this was one of the ideas that my dad had. And I was just finishing up graduating at University of Alberta, poli sci major and a history minor, so absolutely no agriculture background. And my dad was - we were doing dry wall and taping, so it was another business idea he had, and I was helping him a bit during the summer and off when I was not in school. And he had happened to come upon this small, little cafe on the west side of Edmonton, and he entered it just to grab a cup of coffee. And there was a few gentlemen sitting at a table, and they were talking Frisian, and that is a language in Holland, in a province in the Netherlands, maybe spoken by 2-3 million people. It's a very small language. And he overheard them talking about little potatoes, and, you know, reminiscing about, you know, them eating little potatoes as young children as they pull it off the field. And my dad left there, and he's like, that's it. That's the next business idea. 

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So he came to me and said, Hey, I got this, this idea, like, why don't we do this together? 

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And you know what? I was 20 something years old, just graduated. I mean, I didn't study it. Be honest. I was not at all interested in agriculture or potatoes for that matter. Like, how boring is that? And also, I was not that keen on being in business with my dad. So I said, look at all I'll help you get it started, but then I'm going to go off and do something else. 

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So we started with a one acre test plot. We planted it all by hand, harvested it by hand. We washed it in a bathtub, and then somehow he convinced me to go around the city and sell them to local delis and restaurants, and that's sort of the start from there, and, well, here I am, sitting here with you, and I never left. So I have learned a lot about potatoes over the last 29 years and running a business.

Matt Knight  04:39

And maybe, let's go back to those early days. I've heard the bathtub story a couple time, where you're washing these potatoes, family bathtub. What was it like, kind of starting to work with your father. Did you guys always get along?

Angela Santiago  04:53

Oh goodness

Matt Knight  04:53

How did that - how did that go for that first summer?

Angela Santiago  04:56

So here's the thing, and I recognize it now. I have young, 20 something year old children, and there's something that a parent can see in a child that we don't always see in ourselves. And so I think my dad saw that I had an acumen, acumen for whether it's business or sales or something like that. So he really kind of pushed me in the forefront. And so that was a, I think, a very positive experience for me as a parent, seeing a gift in their child and kind of putting them in a position where they they might succeed. 

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So in the beginning, it really was, you did everything. You know, pulled the potatoes out of the ground, wash them, put them in a bag, and then, you know, drove around the town. So I - those memories are quite fond for me, because there's also the other piece of other family members, like my mom and my brothers, that you know, sort of helped along along the way. And so in the beginning, it was very much a family affair. It was a small idea. Had no idea where it would go at that point. And it came with its arguments, it came with its disagreements. And I'm sure in those first five years I quit many times in absolute frustration.

Matt Knight  06:14

Yeah, do you remember any of those? Like early, you know, probably small arguments that stick out for some reason,

Angela Santiago  06:22

Ummm

Matt Knight  06:22

Not arguments - maybe disagree.

Angela Santiago  06:23

No, yeah. So there might be a theme of, you know, a dad telling his daughter what to do, right? And that usually doesn't go over well. So it's one lesson I try to remember with my own children. But I think in general, we were really aligned with the product. We really believed in it, and we very much didn't, I would say, overlap on a lot of things. I did, sort of the front end, so the sales piece, and then my dad was more of the anchor and the growing so there was a lot of compliments there that happened. 

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So there was some friction in the beginning, but I think as it grew, that's when some more I would say, strategic business decisions had to be made that we didn't always agree on. And I can give you one example. When we were contemplating going into the US, my dad was pretty adamant that we had to go partner with other big companies in the US, and I wasn't very sure of that, and partly was because I think, you know, it was our baby. I liked the autonomy of running a business, and so I didn't want to give that up. But nonetheless, I did me, I did my research, and we went to interview several big companies in the US. And I left going, No, we got to do this on our own. And my dad eventually got in behind that. But that was, I would say, one of the bigger friction points. Yeah.

Matt Knight  07:51

We'll dive into some of that growth stuff in a little bit.

Angela Santiago  07:53

Yeah.

Matt Knight  07:54

But when you kind of talked about the idea of your dad pitching these little potatoes, you know, I think you sound a little bit skeptical at first.

Angela Santiago  08:03

Yes.

Matt Knight  08:03

Do you kind of, do you kind of remember maybe the turning point of when you're like, actually, these potatoes, have… yeah, little potatoes have big opportunity? Like, was there that shift somewhere?

Angela Santiago  08:14

Yes, there's two stories to that. One was, we sold. We had an order for the Banff Springs Hotel, and that, for me was like a feather in a cap, because it was like, well, you know, a chef of a, you know, pretty respected hotel was like, this is a good product, and I want it. So that was the first sort of thing that I thought, Oh, wow. I think we're, we're on to something. 

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The second big one was the IGAs in Alberta. We had cold called the buyer, and I ended up coming, and we had about, I think maybe 30,000 pounds that year. It was, I think the second or the third year we had grown so we had not very much. And so cold called the buyer, and at that time, there was this large staircase that would wind up to the second floor where all the buyers were. And he came and met us out in the stairway, and I showed the product, and I said, I got about 30,000 pounds of it. And right there, he said, I'll take it, and that was it. And so we sold our whole first crop to local IGAs in Alberta. So that was sort of the second big in the beginning that, okay, we're on to something. And yeah, that was a lot of validation for us to keep going.

Matt Knight  09:31

And that, that would have been a pretty huge moment.

Angela Santiago  09:33

That was, yeah,

Matt Knight  09:34

We have this whole thing we're gonna sell. And then all of a sudden they're all gone

Angela Santiago  09:37

Yeah. So, and I'll tell you a little bit behind, I found this out years later, I guess the gentleman had brought a sample of the product home, and his wife had said, you, you have to list this. This is really good product. And so, yeah, yeah.

Matt Knight  09:53

Yeah. So that kind of family component early on too.

Angela Santiago  09:56

Yeah.

Matt Knight  09:58

So that kind of really helped to shift. Your perspective of the outward might be onto something here. What were some of those kind of big lessons in those early years? Was it the persistence, the innovation around trying to make those small improvements, to make things easier as you're growing?

Angela Santiago  10:16

Well, I think first of all, and I'll say this, my dad has a love of agriculture, but he has no agriculture background either. Prior to starting little potato, he was special assistant to the Minister of Agriculture, Eugene Whelan for a number of years, but that, I think that's where his love of ag grew. I think the first thing that probably helped me was my naivety around potatoes and how to sell and to retail. I just, I thought, you could just call these buyers up, and so that actually worked in my favour. 

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There were a lot of obstacles in the beginning. It was a new category. Everybody knows potatoes, but didn't know little potatoes, and so that was sort of a bit of a selling point that we had to position it as this was value added and and at that time, I didn't know that, but the the large potato category was on the decline, and had been on the decline for decades, and continues actually to be on the decline, with the exception of the COVID years. So there was always that, you know, it's an old category that wasn't doing much, kind of always on the decline, but it was all about volume, and so to come in and position a product as a value added, higher price, not a lot of volume. That was often, sometimes a hurdle to get past with a buyer. 

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And then the other thing, in the very beginning, regulations didn't allow you to sell potatoes in anything less than a three pound bag, so we had to lobby the government to get smaller pack sizes. So that was a lesson, too, on how to maneuver through that and network and find the right people. I think my big lesson in the first few years is really this is where hard work rolling up your sleeves and doing every bit of the business is, I think where you get, where you get the most experience, actually, when you start a business, is kind of touching everything. But, I mean, I say that to my kids too, like hard work is probably one of the biggest ingredients to success. 

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So I would say those would be the big things I and I mean, as it snowballed from there, I'd also say resilience in going from A to B, sometimes you got to go ABC and then. So I figured that out too, is that sometimes the way you planned it isn't the way it ends up having to go.

Matt Knight  12:42

Yeah? There's a lot of those along the way yeah, yeah. So you talked about how, you know, at the beginning, you kind of partnered with your dad on doing this, and eventually, you know, I'm sure there's a point there where you went from kind of working with your dad to transitioning more into that leadership, CEO type role.

Angela Santiago  12:58

Yeah.

Matt Knight  12:59

How did you go about kind of getting your own leadership perspective and skills and ideas while still trying to honor some of that legacy or some of his ideas.

Angela Santiago  13:09

Good one. So I will say this, my dad never wanted to be the CEO. I think he really recognized that that was something that I probably would be better at than him. So that was ever, never a contention, where he ever wanted to lead the company. He was very much of a support and sort of a servant like leadership. For me, I've always been like this to this day. I crave learning. I love learning. I like reading. I like going to executive programs. I go to peer groups, I have an advisory board, I have coaches. So this first for always wanting to learn and do things better has probably been the biggest thing to my leadership development. 

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I think the other piece is, I think I have the ability to not be afraid to say, I don't know, and go ask for help and go get experts that can come and help me. And I did that in the beginning with really building a great team. 

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And I used a fractional model. I've I still do to this day, when I need experts, I can bring them in fractionally. And I think the other thing that probably has really helped develop my leadership is I'm not - I don't like making mistakes, but I'm not afraid of them. And in fact, when I do make them, I actually take the time to dissect them a bit, do a lot of self reflection, pull the learning from it, then let it go and move on.

Matt Knight  14:47

So really almost that, like very kind of humble and authentic approach of not taking yourself too seriously, learning from things that happen along the way, yeah, and not being afraid to ask for help.

Angela Santiago  14:58

100% Yeah, yeah.

Matt Knight  15:02

So you mentioned kind of that continuous learning part, yeah. So, you know, how has that kind of influenced your career and your leadership throughout the years?

Angela Santiago  15:12

Oh, okay, so I put an advisory board together fairly early on, and so that network has always helped me. I do a Harvard executive program. I did Executive Programs at U of A and so I will put myself out there to like and often it's this, and that's usually my, my, my note that I think I'm this, I'm going to learn something as you get that little bit uncomfortable nervousness when you step into something like that, and often I'll have that in peer groups as well. I started off in Entrepreneurs Organization and moved to YPO, and I remember when I moved there, I was like, Ah, I'm around all these people that have billion dollar companies and and it was a nice uncomfortable but I will purposely put myself in those situations where I can, I can learn from other people's experiences.

Matt Knight  16:04

Yeah, and that's, I think, a key part of actually what I've learned about Little Potato Company too, is you also invest in that with other people. Yes, I do. So my very first experience with a little potato company was actually in a peer group that Sandy and I were in together.

Angela Santiago  16:18

Oh right

Matt Knight  16:19

So we came out, we went out to your old facility, yes, and had a tour. And so it's that kind of commitment that, you know, you see it as valuable, but you're also investing in it for you got it which is, which is huge, yeah. So, you know, I think that leads me a little bit into, you know, you really look at, looking at building kind of that collaborative environment you're trying to build, you know, this leadership approach for yourself and your executive team with kind of a lot of like vulnerability and authentic, authenticity, yes. How does that play into kind of where you are today and the team that you've built around you?

Angela Santiago  16:53

So I'll back up. One of the things that I think flows through the company is our five core values, which has been, I think, the anchor for recruiting, but also retaining people. So you already have that sort of foundation, kind of set. We all agree this is how we're going to play. We're going to get stuff done, but this is how we're going to do it. And I think in leadership, with anything when you want something to happen, like whether it's authentic, not afraid to learn or not afraid to admit a mistake. You always do it by example. So I will try to do that as openly as I can with my executive team, and I think that gives them permission to do the same. 

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So that's how it plays out. I love collaboration. And so in order to do that, you have to have different perspectives at the table. And so I like being really inclusive. And the company is very inclusive. We have, you know, lots of people at the table to get different perspectives, so people feel heard before we move forward on something.

Matt Knight  18:00

So you mentioned kind of the importance of the importance of those values. And one of your values is family, yeah, yeah. So tell me more, more about that, like, how is that lived throughout the organization?

Angela Santiago  18:11

So that's really good. And so family is one of them, and it's, it's just the importance that family plays in everybody's lives, not just in the business, but that we believe, and however your family looks, that that's a really important resource for people, and to make sure that they they have the time for that and whatever balance looks like for them. I'm not prescriptive about that, but I definitely give autonomy for people to understand that. But I think how it plays out at Little Potato Company, is that, and I believe this sort of runs through almost every family business, is that there's a quality and care for the product or the service you have, and a quality and care that you have for people that that is more important than profits. Yes, we want profits and we want to make money. But I think that is pretty unique to family businesses, is that there's a more emphasis on the quality of the product and the care for the people.

Matt Knight  19:10

Yep, and that's right before the show. We were talking about how, you know, some of the stats of family business, yeah, we're talking about how, you know, I was telling you, like, 55% of charitable donations come from family business, and you know, that kind of commitment that they have to the community really kind of emphasizes and reinforces that. Yeah, yeah. So one of the other things I wanted to talk about on the family side is you've built a pretty amazing company and career for yourself, but you're also a mother. You've been raising your kids. How have you managed that? And how have you been able to balance that over the years?

Angela Santiago  19:46

I would say, poorly at times. So there's an analogy I had given and I shared with a group once, and I once had it on a board in my hallway. I don't any longer, but might be something I should resurrect. It. And it was just, it was four buckets, my four buckets of life, work, family, myself, and then my marriage, and so just always being aware of where each of them are at. My default is. I love working. It comes very naturally for me to work hard. So that's my default, my autopilot. 

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So I had to be really aware of where the levels of my other buckets were at and just know that I had to very intently then start filling them up. And so at times, yes, buckets got depleted. I've had some pretty good health scares, and those are always my warning signs, obviously that that bucket has been emptied. And so I'm, I would say I'm much more learned the hard way. I'm much more aware of being more planned and intentful about how I balance my life and I, I'll say that it doesn't happen every day. Sometimes it doesn't happen every week. Sometimes there's a year that you don't have very good balance, but I work hard so that at the end of my life that it's been balanced.

Matt Knight  21:11

And that's where you know work life balance is a bit of a misnomer. It is in that, yeah, it's really hard to figure out what that balance is, yeah, but it's more about, how do you make sure that you know those four buckets are all as full as they can Yes, and you're kind of getting that personal satisfaction out of all of them, yeah. And that can change as our careers, families and yeah, situations change, yeah. So go back to the values one more time before we kind of move on. How do you kind of see those values kind of maybe above and beyond family playing out in the organization?

Angela Santiago  21:48

Okay, so we've got family, we have elevated others, and that, in essence, is really to recognize everybody's gifts. Everybody comes with different experiences that they bring to the table. And that's sort of how that plays out in perspectives and honoring what people bring to the company, because they bring a lot of stuff to the company that they've gotten through their other life and work experiences go beyond that's always and I'll tell you the story about how we came up with our values, because I think that's it was an important lesson for me that I do share with others. 

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So at the very beginning, we had a great facilitator coach that, you know, said, I think you should nail down your value. So the exercise was, is, if you would start the company over again and and it says, mission to Mars. Who would you send? And why. So that's how we kind of formulated. So there was a woman at the company that was just the most incredible, warm, welcoming person. 

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So that's where the down to earth one came from, elevate others had come from my husband, he had a notorious way of looking at people's resumes, and we had a lot of immigrants still do and be able to look at people's resumes, and I'm like, wow, like you have all this experience, you should be doing this job instead. So that was birthed out of being inspired by people that worked in the company - that was a characteristic that we admired. And so that's how that was started and and so that's how the values and they still are today, the same. I re-wordsmith them a tiny bit a couple years ago just to kind of keep up with the times, but the five values are still exactly the same.

Matt Knight  23:36

Nice. Yeah, it's pretty special that you're able to, like, link them back to individuals that have made a difference in the company as well. Yeah. Do those individuals know that they were kind of the example of the question?

Angela Santiago  23:49

Ah, that's actually a really good question. There might have been one or two in the room when we were brainstorming it, but there might have been a couple that weren't, yeah, yeah.

Matt Knight  24:00

It'd be really neat conversation to go back and say

Angela Santiago  24:02

absolutely yes, yeah. That was a characteristic we admired in you Yeah, yeah.

Matt Knight  24:10

So, you know, you mentioned, you know, kind of the very beginning you went from that one acre of test land or test plot, and you've grown pretty substantially. I think it's, you know, 14,000 acres under management or ownership or contract, whatever the right, yeah, terminology, your products in 20,000 stores, way bigger than you probably ever thought at the farmers market side of things, yeah. How, how did you get there? Like, what were some big moments that led you to that level of expansion and growth.

Angela Santiago  24:43

Okay. So if I look at Canada, because we were in Canada, probably for at least 15 years before we started doing any kind of exporting. So I would say in Canada, obviously that first, you know, the IGA, that was sort of okay, wow. Good. Solid foundation. In Alberta. Then, then we got a few other big retailers in Western Canada, Safeway, and then Costco, and then the big one for us in Canada was Loblaw, and we, we managed to win the private label President's Choice Program with them, and that, that was the thing that made us national. So that was a big thing for us, and it was also our first, our first dibble dabble into a private label. And that was a big dibble dabble, because Loblaw is the biggest retailer in Canada. Late nights on their first few orders. 

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Then in the US, we just sort of picked up certain regions. I would probably say the real big one that got us really on the map was Walmart. And there's an interesting story behind that. We were at a trade show, and I remember the buyer's name and everything, and I actually saw him two years ago, at a trade show, he came and sought me out, and then actually, his wife came and said something to me too. 

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But the story was, we were at a trade show, and a lot of retailers will flip their badges because they don't want to be bombarded by people. So he came up and he was talking to me about the product, and I was, you know, just chatting away with him. And so he flipped his badge, and he's like, Well, how come you haven't come, seen us yet, seen us yet. And I'm like, Ah, you're Walmart, because I'm scared of you. And so that was a story there. And he was very he was like, look at I will ease you into this. We will work with you. We'll give you division by division. And so that was a really big obviously, that was a really big win for us. 

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And then, yeah, it just went from there. The Costco's and the Sam's clubs in us now too. Yeah, yeah, okay. And then, after we got some scale, we realized we had to actually put a stake in the ground in the US. And so we ended up in just outside of Madison, Wisconsin, we have a big growing region, and we built a facility there in 2017

Matt Knight  27:04

Okay, yeah, that was one of my next questions. Okay, that's a pretty big milestone of the big US base, yep, how did you kind of decide that this was something you had to do? And what advice would you give to other people who might be looking to, you know, start a division in the US?

Angela Santiago  27:21

Okay, so it is scary. There were a couple years of it - us not making money at all, and partly because you put a lot of money into infrastructure, and you don't have the volume yet garnered in that new plant, because you've got to build up the potato supply in that region. So we had exported first from our Canadian facilities. So we have a co packing partner in Prince Edward Island, a family that we've been working with for a while. So between those two facilities, we were exporting. But we knew at some point, if we really wanted to get into one of the largest markets in the world, we needed to establish ourselves there. So we knew strategically, we had to find a growing region and build a facility. And so we did all our research and figuring out where we should do that. And so that was, and that was after, obviously I had done all the interviewing of potential US partners, and realized what the critical piece was that we weren't going to align on values and two we were going to be sort of this product that they did at the side of their desk. And for us, it was this was all we did. It was 100% what we did. So I knew that at some point we would have to do it ourselves. 

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So that was a big leap. What I learned from that one was, I think, and a lot of Canadian companies do that, we don't understand the scope and size of that market, we just don't. Like a retailer like Loblaw is the size of a retailer in Texas, like, it's just so scale, really, I think, caught us off guard, and I don't think we were strategic enough in just picking a region and a small region like north east or the west side and just and just really building up the volume there, we kind of went at it, like, get listings everywhere, And then logistics and all of that became an absolute nightmare for us. So that would be my - you almost have to treat each region in the US as its own country, because it is kind of the size of Canada. So it was our biggest lesson in scale.

Matt Knight  29:35

Yeah? So kind of breaking it into smaller pieces, yeah. And going to grow that way, yeah? And then so probably today, the supply chains are two separate one in Canada and one in the US,

Angela Santiago  29:44

Yes, but they're, they're run by the same team, yep. So they manage and figure out the supply chain management of the three plants that we have in between those three plants we, we we deliver to all the states, all the provinces, and now we're into Mexico as well. So yeah. Between those three facilities.

Matt Knight  30:01

So the three facilities are Alberta,  PEI and Wisconsin. Yeah, so, and how do you kind of see that strategy kind of playing into current times with some of the tariffs?

Angela Santiago  30:14

Yeah. So one was we were - it's been seven years since we built that facility in Wisconsin, so we've had plans to go look at it and expand it. We had enough room there to be able to do that. So we're probably just going to speed that up and do some more investment into the plant in Madison, Wisconsin. We just built the facility here and just outside of Edmonton and Nisku, and so we'll probably mirror that and build one in there. And with that, we'll have to increase our production down there. And we knew this before. We've had other kind of things that kind of gave us little, you know, flags that you know, this is a border we don't control, and we're really learning that right now. So the strategy to have a more production and growing in the US will just speed that up now.

Matt Knight  31:12

Yeah. And then, would you service Mexico from Canada

Angela Santiago  31:15

From the US right now? Yeah, Mexico won't accept Canadian potatoes. We're working on that, but I hope I know, yeah.

Matt Knight  31:24

okay, so, you know, and we talked a little bit about how, you know, the big potatoes, or potato potatoes, are declining category, but you've had some pretty big success with the with the little potatoes that are kind of a growing category, more by, you know, kind of looking at like, what is it that created that success? Is it like, the convenience? Is it the new packaging, the smaller packages? Is it the healthier? Like?

Angela Santiago  31:50

Oh, yeah.

Matt Knight  31:51

How is that one going?

Angela Santiago  31:52

No, that's so I think, first of all, there's a love of potatoes, period. So household penetration of potatoes is like 95% so that means, at some point every house has a potato in so that we didn't have to educate anybody on that. But I think the big thing for us is one. I think what sells it, it's it feels like family. It's a family farm that grew it. It's a family that produced it and packed it and now selling it, it's easy. You don't have to peel the potato. It's really easy to do. You can microwave them in five minutes, or boil or roast, and they are really healthy for you. And so I think those three combos are, what are, what is making this a really good brand,

Matt Knight  32:38

And so, and you're kind of more of a premium, higher priced potato. How does that play into doing the CO packing for places like Walmart or Loblaws or things like that?

Angela Santiago  32:50

We still get a good, good gross margin for that. So it's not like that takes away from us. I will say we debated that for years, ever doing private label because we really wanted to build a brand, but we recognize that good private label programs actually help build the category, and that's ultimately what we want to do, is build the little potato category. And so if we have pieces of that, then we benefit from all of it. So yeah.

Matt Knight  33:21

So you talked a little bit about innovation and kind of coming up with new ideas and new approaches, you know, really playing into that success. Probably, I think, like from some of the other things I've seen more in, like product development and sustainability and things like that, do you have some kind of examples of how you've gotten some of these things, whether it's new potatoes or the sustainable initiatives you put in the new facility, in terms of kind of how you use innovation to grow and compete.

Angela Santiago  33:50

Maybe I'll go chronologically. So had to lobby for smaller pack sizes. So we could lobby now, now we can sell them in a one pound, one and a half, two, all the way up to three. So that was sort of the first piece of innovation we knew we couldn't put, you know, whole bunch of little potatoes in the five pound bag, although we do now for Costco and Sam's Club, typical family probably would want a smaller pack. So that was the first one. 

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Some, I will say, came out of, sometimes innovation comes out of mistakes and just laziness. So we have a tri pack, so it's a red, yellow and blue in the bag. And I remember that coming off of a, probably of a long week on a Friday, and we had to wash some potatoes, I think it was for food service. And we just said, just dump them all in the washer and we’ll sort them later, and out they came out of the washer on the line. And it was just, we were all stunned. We were standing there like, that's beautiful. Let's make a package out of that so that that was what we call the terrific trio, or the medley pack. So that was one that. 

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Then obviously, the famous pack in Costco and Sam's Club is just the red and the yellow that came out of we ran out of blues, and so we pitched to Costco one, and we just do a yellow and red and that SKU completely took off. 

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So there's always a lot of innovation that happens at the farm level. Agronomically, we've been able to take varieties that, you know, that yielded so much, and then with different practices and different spacing and different nutrients, we were able to increase the yield. So that kind of innovation, that happens in the Nisku plant. In a new build, we did a lot of innovation with automation and AI and data and all that kind of stuff. 

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So, and then in the product development, you know, spice pack, we did microwave and an oven tray. And then we do something for food server, food service, which is a value added, ready, already cooked. We don't offer it retail yet, so that was sort of birthed out of that.

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 And then there's always stuff that happens in the back end, you know, on how we do things with finance and processes, there's always, I think innovation sometimes. It's not the fun stuff that ends up on a shelf, but it's how we do businesses sometimes. And I, I love that, and I super encourage that, because I think that's still how the entrepreneurial spirit lives in the company is through the innovation, and people always trying to figure out a different and a better way to do it.

Matt Knight  36:26

Yeah. And it seems like a lot of the decisions you've made, even that you've just walked me through so far, are still go back to your values, yeah, which is pretty amazing to see companies you know, that committed to their values, where they're willing to make, you know, strategic decisions on where they expand based upon that value set that's ingrained in that organization. And a lot of a lot of companies would ignore that. Oh, but it's pretty amazing that you kind of stuck to that. So tell me more about maybe some of those other new potato products, like the pre made or the added ones.

Angela Santiago  36:58

That one I'm really excited about, we did a, we did a trial run of that in retail, and we learned through that it didn't, it didn't work, but partly, I think it was because how we approached it. So I'm excited about that kind of stuff, because it still honours. It's still little potatoes. It's not a big potato, but it's pre cooked. It's got spicing to it, and it just makes it really easy for a chef in the back end of the kitchen to add, you know, small potatoes to their - to the plate or to the meal. So that kind of stuff. We also did some work on a roasting product. So I'd like to see that come to market in the next couple years for sure. Yeah, and then we launched, we tried to launch, it's in a trial right now, in two retailers in the US, just Little Potato Company spices for if you buy a fresh bag of potatoes, you can buy the spices too. So we're giving that a shot right now. Yeah.

Matt Knight  37:50

Nice. So we talked a little bit about, you know, earlier, about your kind of the family connection, you know. And you know, as a mother growing this business, you're growing a multinational company as well. You're probably all over the place, between Canada and the US, things like that. How? You know, let's go a little bit deeper into how you balance some of these things.

Angela Santiago  38:15

Okay? And I will say there were times like where all of that just came to a head. You're trying to grow a business, you've got young kids, a fairly new marriage, and you're running yourself ragged. So I think there was a good part of my 30s that I quite honestly didn't think I was doing anything right, like nothing right. And so I think what I did try to do is, when I was home, I tried to be as present as possible. So do things with the kids, you know, Movie Night. It seems small, but it's pretty significant. I think when I look back, because I've often, I have these chats with my kids on, you know, I felt like an absent mother sometimes, and their feedback was like, that's not how we saw it. So that was my perspective, not theirs. 

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And so maybe it - for them what was reflected in the quality of the time I spent with them. But I also learned even with young kids, I was really clear and transparent about, Okay, I'm leaving Monday, I'm coming back Wednesday, this is where I'm going. And I learned not to underestimate their understanding of things. Even at a young age, they could get it and if I had to show them on the calendar. So I had one kid that, no, you need to take me to the calendar. I need to see it. Okay, got it. And then just also learning when you come back into that is every kid adapted differently. So I, you know, one was just Oh, Mom's home, and another one would be very much like, I'm going to regulate how you re enter. And so just being very respectful of that with my kids on how they saw that I also did from the very beginning. 

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And this also might be why their answer is different than mine is when they were younger, and where it was possible I would take them on trips with me, so they would each get a turn coming with me. So they've been to all sorts of places in the world, been to trade shows, been to breeding programs in Chile, and seen our growers in California. And so I did that for quite a while, probably up until they hit high school. And so they, I think they got to see my world a little bit more. So I think that might have helped them too. 

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So I yeah, I involve them in that kind of stuff. And then if we would do like launch days, annual launch days at the company, I'd say, why don't you come in and sit in on what some of the people are presenting? And so even at a young age, it would sit there, and I'm sure they would troll their chair. But nonetheless, so I think that's also how I probably integrated them a little bit more into my life. It was through that now that they're older, they, I mean, they have summer jobs at the company, they pack potatoes, they sweep floors, they do all of that. They start at the beginning, yeah. And I think now that they're in their 20s, there's a lot more different conversations we have about, you know, how to read a financial statements and, you know, product development and how do you place product and those are fun conversations to have because, you know, three out of the four are in business school, so that's now you have different conversations with them.

Matt Knight  41:38

Yeah, so my next question kind of builds on that. So what kind of ideas or rules or principles do you have about engaging your kids in the business? So like, when would you bring them in? How would they have to act? Or what would they do? Like, yeah, what are your thoughts on that?

Angela Santiago  41:55

So ground rules are right for now, because they just have summer jobs. It's you enter where you enter, like you don't skip levels. You get paid what everybody else gets paid. You don't get - I had one son that would be notorious for being late, and I would tell his supervisor, you need to give him crap. So same rules apply. We really agreed that there were going to be no exceptions to that, that they had to learn hard work, and they had to work alongside people. And part of that was because I remember my older son, he's, this was one summer, and he came home complaining because, you know, this one machine wasn't working, and my back hurts and all this kind of stuff. Why do I have to do this? And so I reframed it for him, and I said, you know, son, if you ever want to move into management, you understanding what some of these jobs are in the company will make you a better manager. You'll be more empathetic and understand what they have to do every day, and in return, you'll get more respect because you work side by side of them. And so then I never heard him complain after that. And so he understood now that that's part of the journey. 

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What I am working on with my brothers is, you know, once, when they graduate college, and if they decide, I've never put pressure on the kids to you have to be in the family business. I want them to have their own life and their own choices. And so again, how it lands with different kids. And I had the conversation. Look at I want you to choose to be in here. I don't want you to feel obligated. And so my second oldest son, he's like, yeah, no, I've always understood that I'll have a choice. And then my third oldest son, he goes, That's not how I took it.

Matt Knight  43:51

Hmm interesting.

Angela Santiago  43:51

He said, you've never invited me. And I was like, What the heck? Oh. So I was like, Okay, I don't mean to be aloof about it, but I still want you to choose, but of course, I'd love it, but I don't want those words to assume that you have to be obligated to it. Yeah, so a good part of the work I'm doing now is all on governance. And what are the further rules of engagement, of family and business? And then how do you deal with conflict? Because it happens, and it's usually uglier than normal. And then how do you maintain the employee versus owner role and not and making sure what hat you have on when you walk in, including myself. I'm - when I walk in, I'm an employee, I'm a CEO, and I follow the rules of which are governed by whatever policy have PPE in the plant. I don't walk around that. I don't have to do that. So it's doing that now, also with the engagement of the kids coming into the business. What does that look like for them? And we're figuring that out right now.

Matt Knight  44:57

Yes, kind of regardless of the role. How does, how does their expectations and behavior change, whether they're a family member, an owner or an employee?

Angela Santiago  45:05

Yep, yep, yeah.

Matt Knight  45:08

And what about other people in your family, in the business?

Angela Santiago  45:11

So my dad was in it for many, many years. We did succession planning with him in 2014 and I gotta tell you, it was a very beautiful way of doing it. My dad just did it with such respect and admiration, and we, few years later, after that, we also did further succession planning on, you know, some of the land and the farms he owned in Saskatchewan, and an absolute gift in how he did it, extremely transparent, let go, yet still was supportive. So very beautifully done. And so that was sort of the first and so I worked with my dad for a very long time, and there were many years that we did not get along. There was a lot of - I think, and I think a good part of his frustration probably came out of a fear of he didn't want me to fail. So I know now I translate that into that was a deep love. It maybe showed up weirdly sometimes, but it definitely comes from a deep love of me, not wanting to fail. 

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So my husband's been involved in and out of the business. He was a plant manager. Well, he worked on the farm first and was a plant manager. Then he went off and did his own business, and then came back and did capital assets, and now he's head of design and facilities. So he built that Nisku facility for the family, and my brother runs the breeding program, so we have a sister company that manages all the variety development. So he runs that. And, and then I said, my kids have done summer jobs. Okay, yeah.

Matt Knight  46:55

And, and, do you know how many of them want to work in the business yet? Or are they still figuring that out?

Angela Santiago  47:00

I would say probably three to the four. Well, my oldest is an artist, and he's well on his way, and is quite successful, so I don't think, and he did summer jobs too, but I don't think unless the art world falls apart, he's probably not coming back. The other three have expressed interest. I don't know how that will show up. I think at the very least, what we're doing now with my kids, but also my nieces and nephew, is teaching them how to be good owners. At the very least, you need to be a very good owner. You might not be management, or you might not even choose to work in the company, but being a good owner is a very important role, and so teaching them how to do that.

Matt Knight  47:43

Yeah, it's very and it's a hard skill to learn. Yeah.

Angela Santiago  47:47

Yeah, yeah. So yeah.

Matt Knight  47:50

Maybe one other kind of family element I want to talk about was, how do you look at kind of how the family, or where you are in your family stage influences some of your business decisions, and then maybe how your business decisions influence your family as well, like, how do those two play together?

Angela Santiago  48:07

Oh, yeah, good. Okay, so where I'm at i So one thing that I did, which might be of interest to the audience is, this was several years ago, and I worked with one of my advisory board members on this, and it came out of the - because I had healthcare. I had breast cancer when I was 39 so that was sort of like, Oh God, this could happen any time. We built what's called a corporate will, and in that corporate will is sort of this 90 day plan if something would happen, and it's written down to like the first two hours. Here's what you do, and it's documented, and then it moves through how we move an advisory board into a fiduciary board. It names who my successor is, even in the interim, and here's the recruitment process. So it's really laid out. And I did that obviously, because I love the people that work at LPC, and I'd never want that to be in jeopardy because of something that happens to me, but also clarity for my family. So it runs across, runs parallel to that is called a 60 day plan, and that's basically the same thing on here's what the family's got to do. 

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So that's one thing I did and and then just always, I love org design, and I always like looking at what, what would serve the company better now. So looking at, sort of what my next role is, and global expansion, and if that, that's where I where my value is, and I'm, you know, have to look at how I would run North America differently. So I'm always looking at that, and then as far as business decisions that affect the family. So obviously moving into the US was a very big one, and that one actually provided a really great opportunity for our family. So we actually moved to Madison. In 2017 what was supposed to be only for, like, a two year stint and well, seven years later. So the kids go to college down there, and so that was, I think, an amazing experience. So that's one big way that it has influenced, yeah. 

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And then just, I think, the ability for the kids to have access and have experienced different parts of the world because of where our breeding programs are, and where we sell our product. I think that's been, I think, a really positive effect on the family that those decisions have been made. I will share when the kids were younger. You know, you never think they're paying attention, but they're always paying attention. And this was this. They were still in high school, or, you know, elementary when some of these comments were made, but they were very much, look at we were not sure if we want to run it like they're 15-16, but they, they were like, but please don't sell it. They're like, we love the business, and we love what you do. And that was really interesting for me to hear, because, you know, you think they're off on their own little world and but they were paying attention. And there was a, I think, a pride and a love for the family business that I think I didn't, I didn't recognize. So that was really, I think good for me to hear which, which then spawned for me, it was like, okay, then you got to learn to be good owners. If you don't work in the business, you got at least if you want to keep it, then you have to learn how to do this. Yeah, yeah.

Matt Knight  51:32

Cool, yeah. So, so you mentioned right with that kind of transition plan, you know, you have the advisory board that almost has that like shotgun clause into a fiduciary board as part of a protection mechanism.

Angela Santiago  51:45

Yes

Matt Knight  51:45

Do you have plans to go to a fiduciary board before then? Like, is that something you would explore?

Angela Santiago  51:51

No, no, no. So I was at a we just our advisory board won Best advisory board in Canada Award, which was super exciting for them. And so I was on a panel, and a woman at the back asked, like, why haven't you moved to a fiduciary board? And I said, honestly, because I, I still want to call the shots. It's like, okay, great. And that's the truth, right now, my advisory board is unbelievable. They are incredibly supportive. I say it's my safe place to struggle, and they're there for me. They let me know if my blind spots, they know. They let me know when I'm like, Hey, you got to pay attention to that or great job here. So they've been absolutely instrumental in the growth of the company, but also the growth of me.

Matt Knight  52:44

Wow.

Angela Santiago  52:44

Yeah. So I'm sure there will be a day when I say, Yeah, I'm good now, and fiduciary board it is. But right now I still love, I love making the decisions. And there's, I will say not a lot that end up coming to my table. So I've got an amazing team that makes a tremendous amount of great decisions on on how to run the business, so I'm very grateful for that.

Matt Knight  53:08

Yeah, for that maturity. So looking towards the future. So you've talked a little bit about global expansion, and how you do things different in North America. What do you see as the future? You know? What do you see Little Potato Company becoming? What's your vision?

Angela Santiago  53:27

Oh, and I'll say this first, because I'm not. I am not. Anybody that's met me will say, I'm not driven by money. So one of our things is we want to be a billion dollar company, and we want to have a really good, recognized, well respected, loved brand. I do foresee in the future, we'll be in other products, like value added products, pre cooked products, that you'll see in retail, not just in food service. And I do see that we will be in other regions in particular, probably Australia and Southeast Asia and maybe Europe at some point.

Matt Knight  54:06

So you kind of referenced other products. Would that mean you're moving away from just potatoes or no?

Angela Santiago  54:12

No, we are going to stick with little potatoes.

Matt Knight  54:15

I wasn't sure what you meant by that.

Angela Santiago  54:16

We're a one trick pony. That's all we're doing.

Matt Knight  54:20

I don't know if I know this part, but where did the name come from? Like, I know the potatoes are little, but?

Angela Santiago  54:24

Oh this is a great question. That wasn't our original name. Okay, we were - we named ourselves Gourmet Produce, which is, like, really not inspiring at all. And so we had that name for, I think, maybe two years, and we got a letter from a lawyer saying, Hey, you have to change your name. We've already trademarked the word gourmet in reference to produce, and this is a cease and desist letter. And of course, you get those, and you're like, Oh no, it's the end of the world. So we went to the shareholders at that time, and there was, I think, seven or eight of us, and we said, throw out any name. 

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Yeah. And we had a list of probably, and one of the shareholders actually had the piece of paper, and he sent it to me, so I am going to frame it, and it had, I'm, I'm going to say 30 or 40 names on it. And so we took it out to everybody and said, Put five votes, and the little potato company is one of them, and it won out clearly. And so there's one of those things where you get a challenge and you're forced to go in a different direction, and it was the absolute best thing to have happened.

Matt Knight  55:29

And, yeah, do you remember any of the other names? Like, was there a second runner up?

Angela Santiago  55:32

Harvest Moon? Or, like, I can't remember. Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, I actually, thanks for reminding me, because I have it actually on my phone, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna print what he sent me and actually frame it, because that was a very important moment for us.

Matt Knight  55:48

It's a pretty neat, yeah, kind of legacy piece. Yeah, both for you, but also for future generations in the company.

Angela Santiago  55:54

Yeah. And then when we did actually a rebrand in 2000 and I don't know, 14 or 15, we actually put the name back on the table. And so there was a few other names that came out. And I was, I would say, I was fearful about doing that, but at the same time, I'm looking at, hey, if consumers are not grabbing this. But again, it won out. And so then I was like, hey, that never needs to be brought up again. That's the name, yeah.

Matt Knight  56:23

And it's like, everyone knows what you sell.

Angela Santiago  56:25

Yes, I know, yeah.

Matt Knight  56:29

So one of the other questions I like to ask in every single version of this, or in as many of these versions of this podcast, that I remember, is, you know, on kind of that, that continuous learning framework is, there kind of a book or something that you have to recommend to people that you say, Hey, you have to read this, something that's really kind of made an impact in your life, whether it was professionally or even personally?

Angela Santiago  56:53

You know what? I probably have a list of books, but I won't pivot on that, and I'll tell you why I think what has always been the most impactful for me is people sharing their experiences and their stories. That to me, has always been better than any book I've ever read. It's whether it's my advisory board or a friend, a close friend, that also runs a business or an organization like Entrepreneurs Organization, YPO, you name it, it's the sharing of experiences that people have gone through, whether challenges or wins are typically challenges, those have always been probably the most impactful way that I have learned. So if I could gather all of that and put it in a book, that would be the book,

Matt Knight  57:40

yeah, yeah. So it's more just kind of the value of learning from experience, yeah, and learning from your peers?

Angela Santiago  57:46

People, yeah? Because there's things that happen when that sharing is done, there's emotions that you catch on. There's a personal lesson that that person got from that that's not always expressed in a technical book, and so that's why I think that's always been the most valuable for me.

Matt Knight  58:06

Nice well, that fits really well into both kind of the reason this podcast exists and the reason ABFI exists is we kind of see part of our mission of telling the story of family businesses and business families, and sharing some of that advice and knowledge wherever we can. 

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Yeah. So I'm really grateful for you spending some time with us today and sharing your story and some of your successes and challenges. And really you know that that piece around peer learning is really powerful as well. One of the things we offer at ABFI is actually a next gen peer forum. So we had it historically, and we're really excited to be relaunching it right now.

Angela Santiago  58:41

Love!

Matt Knight  58:42

So actually a dedicated, you know, peer group for next generation leaders in family businesses. So we're really excited for that, and kind of the impact it can have on some of those future leaders. 

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I really enjoyed our conversation today. You know, kind of the couple things that stick out is, is really just the importance of developing those values and using them to make your decisions, and whether it's in your personal life or professional business. So kind of both those you know, how you fill those buckets and how you make decisions to expand globally were both kind of value led conversations that you talked about. 

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And then lastly, just you know, the power of innovation, and also really insightful to hear your thoughts around what you're doing to prepare that next generation of owners. So something that's often overlooked, but a really important part of building that the business family is looking at the role of the owner, and how are they going to get those skills around governance and succession to help the business, whether they're in it or not.

Angela Santiago  59:40

Yeah. So, yeah, cool.

Matt Knight  59:43

Absolutely enjoyed our conversation.

Angela Santiago  59:44

So did I.

Matt Knight  59:45

My final question, yes, is, what is your favorite way to eat little potatoes?

Angela Santiago  59:50

Oh, so they're leftover potatoes. And then I sliced them, and I put a little bit of butter, and then salt and pepper and. Pan fry them, and then I'll do a fried egg and maybe sliced tomato. That's my favorite way.

Matt Knight  1:00:05

Nice. Okay, yeah, no, there's something about leftover potatoes that taste really good.

Angela Santiago  1:00:09

I know I agree.

Matt Knight  1:00:11

And then if people want to learn more about you or the little potato company, or try some of your potatoes, if for some reason, they haven't had them yet, where do they go? Where do they look?

Angela Santiago  1:00:19

Well, our website's fantastic, and I had nothing to do with it. So it's a great website. You'll get a lot of information there, but most of our product is sold in every retailer store, pretty much in Canada. So you could probably walk into any store and you'll find it.

Matt Knight  1:00:35

Awesome. well, thank you so much. Angela. Really appreciate it. Thank you on the show, almost on the store, on the show today. Thank you again, and this has been another episode of Table Talk. If you enjoy it as a listener, please subscribe. Please share it with anyone in your network that needs to hear stories of business families and learn more about what's needed for business family owners or managers or employees and how they develop their futures. So thank you again.

Angela Santiago  1:01:04

Thank you.

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