Matt Knight interviews Justine and Kendall Barber, co-founders of Poppy Barley, a luxury fashion brand known for its sustainable and ethically produced footwear, bags, and knitwear. The company, which started in 2012, has grown from an initial idea to its first 100 customers within a year. The sisters discuss their backgrounds, the inspiration behind Poppy Barley, and the challenges of balancing family and business. They emphasize the importance of maintaining a work-life balance, the impact of family dynamics on their business decisions, and the future growth plans. They also highlight the significance of financial literacy and risk-taking, influenced by their upbringing.

Outline

Introduction and background of Poppy Barley

  • Matt Knight introduces the guests, Justine and Kendall Barber, and explains the name of their company, Poppy Barley.
  • Justine and Kendall share their personal backgrounds, including their children and their spouses’ professions.
  • Kendall describes Poppy Barley as a luxury fashion brand that creates sustainably and ethically produced products, primarily footwear but also expanding into bags and knitwear.
  • Justine explains the origin of the name Poppy Barley, referencing historical units of measurement for footwear.

 

Inception and early days of Poppy Barley

  • Kendall recounts how Justine’s idea for Poppy Barley began during a trip to Bali, where she was inspired by a custom-made boot experience.
  • Justine sent an inspirational email to Kendall detailing the business idea, which led to their decision to pursue the venture.
  • They validated the idea by spending $5,000 each on a trip to Mexico to find a manufacturer and quit their jobs in July 2012.
  • Poppy Barley launched in November 2012, achieving their first 100 customers within 12 months.

 

Evolution of Poppy Barley’s business model

  • Kendall discusses the initial focus on custom footwear and the eventual shift to stock footwear for business viability.
  • They added accessories and expanded their product lines, including a knitwear collection.
  • Poppy Barley became a B Corp, adopting a broader lens for sustainability and ethical manufacturing.
  • They learned from family-owned businesses in their manufacturing countries, adopting a long-term view and values-driven approach.

 

Family business dynamics and challenges

  • Kendall and Justine reflect on their experiences with family businesses in their manufacturing countries and how it influenced their own approach.
  • They discuss the challenges of balancing family and business responsibilities, especially during stressful business periods and after having children.
  • Justine shares a story about postponing her wedding to support the business, highlighting the sacrifices they’ve made.
  • They emphasize the importance of maintaining a work-life balance and supporting each other as co-leaders and siblings.

 

Professional journeys and decision-making

  • Justine and Kendall share their professional backgrounds, including Justine’s diverse career in sustainable architecture, conflict analysis, and urban revitalization.
  • Kendall’s journey included working in technology transfer and supporting student spin-off companies, which exposed her to business fundamentals.
  • They discuss their decision-making process, dividing responsibilities into product operations and retail for Justine, and e-commerce, marketing, and brand for Kendall.
  • They emphasize the importance of recognizing each other’s strengths and making decisions based on what is best for the business.

 

Conflict and growth in the business

  • Kendall and Justine acknowledge that conflict often increases under pressure and share moments of tension, especially during challenging business periods.
  • They discuss the impact of having children on their business and personal lives, including the stress of balancing newborns with business crises like COVID-19.
  • They reflect on the importance of family values in their business decisions and the long-term view they have for Poppy Barley.
  • They emphasize the need for flexibility and support for employees, especially parents, to maintain a healthy work-life balance.

 

Future vision and challenges

  • Kendall and Justine discuss their vision for Poppy Barley’s future, including the possibility of selling the company and aligning with a buyer who shares their values.
  • They highlight the competitive and disruptive nature of the fashion industry and the need to stay ahead of trends and changes.
  • They identify growth as a significant challenge, including securing capital and maintaining the energy and intensity required for long-term success.
  • They emphasize the importance of planning and balancing personal and business goals to ensure sustainability and success.

 

Influential books and advice for aspiring entrepreneurs

  • Kendall recommends the book “The Hard Thing About Hard Things” for its practical advice on navigating business challenges.
  • Justine mentions “The Art of the Start” and “Good to Great” as influential books that helped them in the early days of Poppy Barley.
  • They discuss the importance of having a coach or mentor to provide external perspective and support during challenging times.
  • They offer advice for aspiring entrepreneurs, emphasizing the need to balance business with personal life and seeking outside support when needed.

 

Final thoughts and contact information

  • Kendall and Justine reflect on the importance of maintaining a family-first approach and the support they provide to each other.
  • They discuss the role of their children in the business and the values they hope to instill in them.
  • They share humorous and impactful moments as siblings and co-leaders, including the story of postponing Justine’s wedding.
  • They provide information on how to find Poppy Barley’s products and contact them, including their website and social media platforms.

 

Transcript

Speakers

Kendall Barber, Matt Knight, Justine Barber

 

Matt Knight  00:00

Matt, welcome back to Table Talk with ABFI. I’m Matt Knight. Today I’m joined with Justine and Kendall Barber of poppy barley. It’s gonna be a bit of a dynamic there for people to get out, get over the Barley and Barber sometimes,

 

Justine Barber  00:21

yeah, sometimes people think our names are connected to the business name, and it’s not. But, yeah,

 

Matt Knight  00:27

maybe I’ll ask about that in a second. But first, how you guys doing?

 

Justine Barber  00:30

Yeah, good, yeah. Well,

 

Matt Knight  00:34

maybe tell us a little bit about each of you, and then a little bit, kind of like a 32nd pitch about what Poppy barley is, for people that haven’t heard of the company, maybe we’ll start with you.

 

Kendall Barber  00:46

Hey, so Kendall, I’m Justine’s older sister by 18 months. Besides having Poppy barley, I have two young children. My husband’s an optometrist. He also owns his own business, so we’ve got two business owners in the family, yeah,

 

Justine Barber  01:08

Yeah. So I’m just seeing I also have two young children. My husband’s a lawyer, yeah. And I really like to run, play tennis. Read a lot. Kendall and I are both, like, very voracious readers,

 

Matt Knight  01:20

yeah? And then, who wants to tell me a little bit about Poppy barley? What is it?

 

Justine Barber  01:28

Okay, so Poppy barley is about creating luxury for the people. So we are a fashion brand that creates products in the luxury gap that are sustainably made and ethically produced. So we started, and we still are primarily a footwear company. We create incredibly comfortable shoes for women too busy taking on the world to have sore feet. And then we have a line up bags and accessories, and then, most recently, expanded into our first ever knitwear collection, which we are wearing.

 

Matt Knight  01:58

There’s got to be a connection. And Kendall, can you maybe tell us a little bit about the name, like, where did Poppy barley come from?

 

Kendall Barber  02:06

So Poppy barley’s roots are in custom footwear. And so when we were researching footwear, we discovered that barley corns and poppy seeds were the original unit of measurement to make shoes. So we took poppy seeds and barley corns to create Poppy barley.

 

Matt Knight  02:26

So it’s like, instead of being like a size eight, you would be a 12 barley corns.

 

Kendall Barber  02:32

Three barley corns equaled an inch. And then poppy seeds were used as a smaller unit of measurement in England, this is yeah.

 

Matt Knight  02:39

So could actually be more like accurate than our current numbering system. Maybe

 

Kendall Barber  02:43

could be poppy seeds are pretty small,

 

Matt Knight  02:47

and then so kind of the inspiration and the name is kind of back to that footwear part of things. How did the company start? What kind of made you guys want to tackle the fashion industry or the footwear, shoe industry.

 

Justine Barber  03:04

I think we were on pretty different paths. So I think, you know, we grew up together. We’re very close in age, so we were always only a year apart. And Kendall essentially, was always like, I want to be an entrepreneur. And I was like, I want to save the world, more or less, a little bit more, like I was always into Saving the Rainforest, or, like, working on issues. So we were on our different paths. And then what I saw, what happened, what was happening in business is, it was the focus on the triple bottom line, you know, with like, people, planet, profits, and Warby Parker coming up and doing one for one in pentagonian. And I really started to see, okay, like you can have a business and have an impact. And that really made me interested in business. So I kind of turned to it, and decided for the first time, I wanted to to be an entrepreneur. And Kendall was already kind of along that path with some of her side companies and optometry clinics. Yeah.

 

04:00

So how the company started is Justine was in Bali. She went into a shoe store there, she saw a pair of boots that she loved. She went to pull the pair of boots on, and she couldn’t quite zip them up over her calf, and the man who owned the store said, No problem. I’ll just measure your legs, and I’ll like make the boots for you and ship them back to you in Canada. So Justine got this pair of got her legs measured for this pair of boots, and then, you know, later was walking on the beach, and was like, we this is an idea like this should be available to more women. And so on that trip, Justine sent a couple of emails. The first was, Connor and I are engaged. And it was like, very short and to the point. And then the next email that she sent me was one of the longest emails I’ve ever received, where she took me through her whole business idea and her thoughts, and you could tell she had really, like, sat on it and excited about it, and in a way that can only happen sometimes when you’re on vacation, where you have, like, that freedom. Space to really be creative.

 

Matt Knight  05:01

Yeah, when you’re kind of that, you never know when that inspiration is going to come.

 

Justine Barber  05:06

Yeah. I think for me, I always think it was like a week before that, for the very first time, I thought I want to be an entrepreneur. And then I started looking at the world differently, where I was looking for opportunities and ideas. And I think once you have that hat on, you see business opportunity.

 

Matt Knight  05:21

How long did it take, kind of, from that, that long inspirational email, to actually get something into into place where you were a little bit closer to the business model side of things?

 

05:32

So yeah, I emailed Kendall, I think was early February, in May, after validating the idea to the market and our friends a little bit, we each decided to spend up to $5,000 on a week of vacation to fly to Mexico to see if we could find a manufacturer, because obviously we had to create a product to have a company. We both quit our jobs that July, and then we launched in November.

 

Matt Knight  05:58

What year was this?

 

Justine Barber  05:59

2012

 

Matt Knight  06:00

2012

 

06:02

Yeah. So from like idea to our first 100 customers within 12 months. Yeah, it was fast.

 

Matt Knight  06:08

That’s impressive. And how has the concept changed? From kind of that idea to where you are today with, you know, obviously a couple more product lines, but what’s kind of changed and from that original email, have you ever gone back to that?

 

06:25

No, I haven’t. Actually, I would say it’s changed a lot in the first couple in probably two main areas. In the first two years, we really focused on being custom footwear, and had some success doing that, but could also see a lot of limitations. So in our third year of business, Kendall and I, to our team, were like, We need to go heavily into stock footwear. And, you know, immediately got pushback about like, but this is what makes us special. And we were like, yes, but like, this is the better business. Like, we really need to go this direction. So that was a big flip. And then since then, we’ve also, yeah, added accessories, added complimentary product lines. And then the other big shift that we’ve always been focused on ethical manufacturing, but over the years, we took a much broader lens to what it means to be like a sustainable fashion company. So we certified as a B Corp, and we started using that as a framework to look at our community, look at our suppliers, look at our raw materials, and became, yeah, much more diversified.

 

Matt Knight  07:27

And then, because we are on a business family podcast, have you ever thought of yourself as a family business?

 

07:38

I do in a lot of ways, in the sense that we’re family who have a business, I think we’re a little bit different where we are first generation, and at least in my mind, and I think in kendalls too, we’re not creating the business to pass down, most likely,

 

07:57

Yeah, it’s interesting, because we manufacture in Mexico, Spain, Portugal, and have a little bit in Italy as well. And those are all countries that are very heavy on family business. So I think that when we first started, I don’t know if I would have said, Oh, we’re a family business. But then when we went down there, and it’s like, Oh, two sisters meeting with two brothers who own the factory, like it was our factory partners that, like, held the mirror up to us, and was like, oh, that’s us too. Like we are a family business, but I Yeah, and there, it’s such a sense of pride. And I think we’ve learned a lot from their factory partners down there, because there, the idea is that you are building your company to hand down. So the view that you take, like, the lens on that, like, how long, and like, long the view is because it’s not for, like, five years and I’m going to sell this thing, it’s like, I’m building this for 40 years, so then my children can take it and also, like, how important values are as they sit in that business. Because it’s not just about building this to exit, but it’s like, this is a reflection of me and my entire family too. So, yeah, I think

 

Justine Barber  09:06

the funny side story, because totally, we work really all with family business in our manufacturing countries, and they’ve told us, like, you guys are gonna have to work for a long time because you had kids late, so you have to go like, you know that age plus, like, 25 to 30 years, and that’s our retirement plan. So yeah,

 

Matt Knight  09:25

That succession doesn’t exist until the kids are old enough. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, and so you learned a lot from your suppliers. It sounds like on that family business side of things, how was that always or ever a part of how you picked your partners, or is that kind of just an evolution that everyone happened to be a family business, and now it’s kind of ingrained in what you do.

 

09:47

I more think it’s like every single factory we’ve ever tried to work with, or tannery is a family business, like it’s just so prominent in those countries that I feel like that’s how businesses, for the most part, offer. Great and Iran, so we haven’t tried for it, or not tried for it. It’s just, I feel like, very, very common.

 

10:06

It’s probably, yeah, something about the size, like, our size and, like, maybe in the beginning, working with more smaller businesses who would take on our size of work. And then those happen to be family. But yeah, like, I can’t think of, like, even the really large factories or tanneries that we built,

 

Justine Barber  10:21

I was gonna say, because some of them are big, I think it’s just that’s the dominant form of business organization in those sectors.

 

Matt Knight  10:29

In Italy, it’s about 80 to 90% companies, yeah, where Canada is closer to like, 60% of GDP. So very different ratios there.  So any other family members involved in the business, like any, any or any of your partners involved in the business?

 

10:49

I mean, they’re not involved, except for him being our support person, you know. So I think that they do have a role, but they’re not formally involved in the business.

 

Matt Knight  10:59

Let’s maybe back up a little bit. So you mentioned, Justine, that you’re you’ve kind of been the kind of the social responsibility save the planet, person, and Kendall, you’ve been more entrepreneurship and business. And it sounds like they’ve married very well together. Tell us more about your professional journeys. So maybe we’ll start with, with you, Justine, if you can kind of take us through, you know, how did you get to that inspiration and Bali, sure, and to that next step of entrepreneurship?

 

11:28

Sure? Yeah. So I always think in my 20s, I’m a huge planner, so I always had, like, a five year plan, but then every two years, I was in a completely different profession, so I was kind of a reluctant business student. I did it because it seemed safe and practical, but I didn’t love it. I really loved political science and history and that type of thing. I did Co Op, which let me try a few different areas of business. I worked for, like sustainable architecture firm for a year, and then left to do a master’s in Belgium in international conflict analysis. Cool, yeah. And then I worked briefly for a non for profit in, again, conflict prevention, essentially, and really, when I left, I thought, and my mom certainly thought. I was like, I’m going to build this international career, and I will never live in Edmonton again. That was definitely what I thought. And what I found is I actually really missed my family, and I didn’t want to have a career where I was always in another country. So that made me return to Edmonton and look around and where I landed was working on the first of Alberta’s tenure plan to end homelessness, and then I worked briefly in like urban revitalization, before deciding to become an entrepreneur,

 

Matt Knight  12:42

and then your undergrad was from the Alberta school business, correct?

 

Justine Barber  12:45

Yes.

 

Matt Knight  12:48

Should plug that where we can

 

Justine Barber  12:51

retrospectively, every time I have to do accounting, which is a huge part of a small business, I’m like, Oh, this is a great skill set, but just That’s how I felt at the time. Yeah, it’s a very special skill set. Yes.

 

Matt Knight  13:05

And Kendall, how about yourself? Entrepreneurship has kind of sounds like it’s always been a dream, yeah. How did you get there?

 

Kendall Barber  13:13

So, I mean this k, so our dad worked for CN Rail, and we moved a lot growing up, and it was, we’d live someplace on Friday, and then over the weekend, he’d be transferred, and he’d be we’d be living in Edmonton, and he’d be in Prince George. And so there was, like, a lot of moving, and I gravitated to wanting to have my own business, because I wanted the control. Like, I never wanted to work for someone who was going to be like, and now you do this. So when I was young, I don’t think I would have been like, oh, I want to be an entrepreneur. I didn’t even know what that was like. And I can’t even think of anyone we knew. Like.

 

Justine Barber  13:55

We had a couple of our uncles who, again, I don’t think it was on our radar at all. But now we’re like, Oh, yeah. One of them ran a construction company, and one of them ran a sheet metal install company, and they were entrepreneurs, but I don’t remember it being part of the conversation, yeah.

 

14:08

So I don’t think I was, like, fully on my radar, but I wanted to do my own thing so that I could be in like, I wanted more control of my own destiny than what I thought my parents had. So I went to UVic. I also have a business degree, and at the University of Victoria, there’s a huge focus on entrepreneurship as part of that business program. So I went to school, and it’s a very small program with people who went on to create some really cool companies. So there was a lot of entrepreneurship and case studies as part of that. And I loved it when I graduated from university, I didn’t have like, Okay, this is my idea. So I went and worked in technology transfer, particularly supporting student spin off companies. So again, got to see some really cool technology come out of post secondary institutions that was actually commercialized by starting companies. Um, I’m making it sound like really great, but actually what I did, I was, like an analyst, and it was quite boring at the time, but again, it just like exposed me to, like, IP and business, like, kind of the fundamentals of starting a business. And then, similar to Justine, it was kind of family that brought me back to Edmonton. When I got here, I first worked for Evelyn Charles. This was, like, back in like, 2006 so at the time that she was, like, really growing her business rapidly in marketing, I was like, 2526 years old. And then I thought, like, I have no idea what I’m doing. I should go work for a larger company where I can learn from others. And I went to AMA, the Alberta motor Association. And while I had some really great mentors there. I was like, This is not for me. Like, I like to be able to come up with an idea, walk into work and, like, put it into place. And that was like, really not the culture there. So when Justine had the idea of poppy barley and like, let’s do this, I was like, Okay, I’ve always wanted to do this. Here’s the idea. Let’s make it happen.

 

Matt Knight  16:01

So you mentioned that kind of that culture was kind of something that turned you off of some other organizations. How what’s the culture like at Poppy barley? How have you built that?

 

Justine Barber  16:13

I think it’s a very innovative, scrappy culture where people, they all get a ton of work done. They’re very creative. Make do with less, and they’re problem solvers. That’s I think for both of us, I came from the government, and the reason why I decided to be an entrepreneur is I was like, I don’t want to work on a committee. I don’t want to write a briefing note, like, I want to, like, make decisions like succeed or fail in my own merits, like create. So I think for both of us, it was really like the drive to create and to like work with the people that we want to work with. That is, I think, one of the best parts of being an entrepreneur.

 

16:52

And I would say that we very much like adopt more of like a servant leadership perspective, where it’s like, here are the problems of the organization. Like, help us solve them to our team, and we attract people who like that environment, like, like, being able to

 

Justine Barber  17:12

take on challenging things. Yeah, yeah,

 

Matt Knight  17:15

interesting so, and I think you’re both of your titles are co, CEO, correct. How do you how do you know what? How, like, how do you split up the responsibilities and the opportunities? Like, how do you figure that out between the two of you?

 

Kendall Barber  17:31

Sure. So we divided the company very early on. Like, as soon as we were like, Okay, we’re going to do this together. We really wanted there to be clear decision making with one person. If a decision had to be made, we couldn’t be in like a stall mate. So it’s changed over time, kind of like what our division of portfolios are like right now. Justine has product operations and retail, and I have our E commerce channel, marketing, brand and customer experience, so we divided on that, and if we lead that area, we ultimately have the final say, and we can make the final call there, so we can debate it, and we can have heated conversations about it. But ultimately, if Justine wants to make a call about product, it’s her call to make. And likewise for me in the areas that I lead.

 

Matt Knight  18:23

How did you get there? Like, I’m sure there was a lot of back and forth to figure out, how you have that decision making between the two of you. What did that look like?

 

Justine Barber  18:32

I’ve always led product because I guess I always wanted to work on the product side, and Kendall was a marketer, and I’m not a marketer. So that one was always very clear, every other portfolio has swapped a little bit where, I mean, that doesn’t happen often, but probably once every two years. It’s like with this change in our business, what do you think about doing this? We’ve also, because we each have two children, we’ve had very brief maternity leaves where we have taken on each other’s entire portfolio. So that has helped also learn, like kind of all sides.

 

19:07

Justine and I, like every business person, we have a lot of weaknesses, but One of the things that I think we’re both very strong at is recognizing the things that we do well and where we add tremendous value to the business. So there have been times where, you know, like, for example, I used to have retail, and then Justine took retail. And I think where we were at at that stage of retail growth, Justine was like, here’s the like, here’s why I think I should take retail, and I’m like, I agree with that, and swapped and likewise with customer experience, like, how that came back. So I think it’s really being like, Okay, here’s what I’m seeing sitting because sometimes outside, you can see things the other person can’t see. This is what I’m seeing outside. This is what I think that part of the business needs right now. And I think I’m actually better positioned to do that than you. And often it’s like, we’re like, Okay, let me think on that, because it kind of at first. You’re like, because it feels kind of like, oh, but then you go away, and I think you you think about it, and we have deep trust for each other, like, truly, and I think, like, really value each other’s skill sets. So I think typically, when we’ve gone away, we can think about it and come back to the table and be like, Yeah, I agree, or I don’t, and here’s why. And like, have those conversations.

 

Matt Knight  20:25

So sounds like very like rational and collaborative with that decision making side of things in our good moments. Like, has there been a lot of conflict between the two of these? Like, could you maybe share a couple things that were really hard for you to get over. And kind of some of those key moments and maybe your growth, or in certain pivots,

 

20:47

I think probably, like most businesses, that we find it harder to get along when we’re under a ton of pressure, you know, so really, the moments where our conflict increases are the moment where the business is under a ton of pressure, and you kind of feel that. And then I also think something that we do is, you know, to employees, it’s all about, I mean giving them the problems, but also being kind and respectful and having putting your best foot forward. And I feel like we both do that. And then sometimes we show the other person the other side of us, which is the angry, lashing out, name calling side. So I think that does exist from time to time.

 

Kendall Barber  21:31

Yeah, and I think to add to that, for sure, to add to that, I think some of our moments of conflict have actually come after having a child, and I think that those are challenging and uniquely challenging to us as both female leaders in the business too, but we literally have a baby, a newborn, and we’re back in the business kind of and

 

Matt Knight  21:58

sleep deprived, yeah,

 

22:00

and so we’re like a normal person or normal, I don’t know, but like an employee, an employee would not be in that situation, and you’re coming in and you’re just not your best. And I think that’s that’s really hard. And then there has been times when having a baby also coincided with a very challenging time in the business. So my son was six weeks old when we COVID hit and we closed all of our stores and laid off our team. That was like, not what I was planning to doing with the six year old, our six month old baby, six weeks six or a six week old baby. And like, and likewise for Justine, like, after the birth of a couple of her sons were really stressful moments in the business. So I think that’s just like a layer, like a layer dynamic that when I talk to, like, fellow male entrepreneurs, they’re like, what, you know, like, that’s like, not something that they experience,

 

Matt Knight  22:53

yeah, wow. So the kind of, how does that family responsibility of kind of raising that next generation, and also maybe you’re kind of how you were both raised as kids. How does that play into that decision making and that longer term view for your business? What does it

 

23:17

the thing that I probably love the most as a mother entrepreneur is one that I create, and I still really love that part of my job. And then the second is I have high responsibility, but I have very high flexibility. So for example, when my son was little, I used to stop work at three because he would go to bed at seven, and I could work in the evenings. And that’s something that we’ve always done, and we do with our team too. So it’s not just about us, but our first developer that we ever had, he was recently divorced, and he said, on the weeks that I have custody, I want to work this, and then I’m going to make it up on the weeks that I don’t have custody. So that’s something that we’ve always like, embraced as a company is supporting parents in flexibility.

 

Kendall Barber  24:03

Yeah, you know, reflecting back on like, how we were raised, I kind of opened with saying, Oh, we, like, moved all the time, and we didn’t have control over our destiny, and that’s how I perceived it as a child. Now, how I perceive it is that my dad had the opportunity within his company to take on bigger roles and take promotions, and that required moving. And really, what our parents did was embrace an incredible amount of risk. So I think that we had this model of risk taking that involved the whole family. Like, we would sit down and make pros and cons lists, like, Should we move to Winnipeg? Like, sometimes when it was a choice, and we would flip chart, like, the amount of flip charting that we did as a family is like, not normal. And it was like pros and cons lists. And we were often like, I. At the table deciding if we should move somewhere. And we were like, 10 and eight, right? And like when we went to university, or our parents paid for half and we had to submit a budget, have a budget review meeting where we went through the budget line by line with our parents, and they wrote us one check. Once the budget was approved for the year, it was like, do not ask us for another penny.

 

25:24

They’d be like, your entertainment expenses are too high. Yeah, but yeah, they were very big on financial literacy, I think, like, we had allowance from a very young age, and it was like, when we wanted a Nintendo it was like, save your money. That’s $100 you know, take on chores. Like, how can you get money? Like, so I think that in that way, our parents were very strong. I think in like, talking to us about money, giving us money, helping us make decisions about money. And, yeah,

 

Kendall Barber  25:55

yeah. And like, really feeling like we had a voice, like a true voice in the family, like, very young, and then also, because we were moving so often, we were always in new, unfamiliar situations with each other. So that part of being in business, and like, starting the business we’ve been doing that our whole life, like, put us in a situation that we’ve never encountered before. Like, yeah, since the time I was 18 months old and Justine was a baby. We’ve been doing that together. So I think there are a lot of things that Mara reflect on our childhood that really did lead us to this, like, and lead and give us the skill set to be able to to have be entrepreneurs and start a business, and like, yeah. And a lot of that courage came from how we were raised.

 

Matt Knight  26:41

That sounds like that decision as a as, like, eight and 10 year olds of should we move to Winnipeg? Is very similar to that decision of who should take on retail, like, there’s probably some flip chart, yeah, and negotiation back and forth, where you both had a very real opinion that you could share with each other, yeah, but you had to, kind of like, learned how to listen to each other. Yes, awesome. How kind of given that experience, and I know this might be a newer reflection, how has that played into the way that both of you raise your children, and how old are your kids right now?

 

Justine Barber  27:14

Mine are five and seven,

 

Matt Knight  27:15

five and seven

 

Kendall Barber  27:16

and six and three,

 

Matt Knight  27:17

six and three.

 

27:19

Definitely on the money side. I really try to model what my parents did. I’ve been told by a friend, they were like, your kids talk about money all the time. And I was like, I’ll take that as a compliment. You know, where they have allowance when we do something, if we’re in a museum and they’re in the gift shop, they’re not like, give me a toy. I’m like, How much money do you have? Do you think that plastic dinosaur is worth four weeks of allowance and and those are the conversations we have. They try to sell me their artwork all the time. I’m like, so in that way, in other ways, I feel like I’m raising my children quite differently, because we’ll probably only live in Edmonton. We live in a very close knit neighborhood. They go to a very small school. What we had to do in terms of going into new situations isn’t a big part of their life. So I think I’ll have to think as a parent, how do I create that for them so that they have some of that same experience?

 

Matt Knight  28:13

Yeah, be able to kind of find that confidence, to have those conversations,

 

Justine Barber  28:16

yeah, and even just know what it’s like to walk into a room and not know anyone. I think that’s a great skill set to have that I’ll have to figure out, because it won’t be how they’re raised.

 

Matt Knight  28:27

Yeah, and be able to talk to someone that they haven’t met before.

 

Justine Barber  28:30

Yeah, yeah.

 

Kendall Barber  28:32

I think that when it comes to raising kids like part of the reason why money was always in the conversations when we were younger, is because it was very much our reality. Like, as a family, we had to choose between what we were doing because we didn’t have the money to do everything. So I think that now with my kids, like, I think Justine does a far better job talking about money with her kids. My fake kids think anything that comes off the internet is free, like, well, just order another one. You know, like, there’s like, not an understanding of like, that being money. I think one of the things that I think a lot about is exposing my kids to a lot more people with a lot of different jobs, because I felt like we had, like, a very narrow view of what you could do with your life and and so that. And then also the ability to like travel and experience things. And like, I can’t wait to get my kids into a Fauci into our factories. Like to take them on some of those trips for them to be able to see that. And then I also think, like, I never apologize for having to work like and what I say to them is that, like, I hope that you have a job that you love to do so much that you want to do it too. And that’s, like, really important to me, is for them to not ever think about. Just a job, but they can do anything, and they have the ability to find something that they love and commit themselves to it and not have to apologize for working. So I really want them to see like my job filling me up, and like the impact that we’re able to have through Poppy barley, and how we share that, because ultimately, like, that’s like, the ultimate reason to create a company, or that’s what motivates us. It’s not about our own wealth. It’s about, really the impact that we can have through the business. So that’s the most important thing I want the kids to take away.

 

Matt Knight  30:39

And it’s, you know, kind of couple weeks ago, we were all at that signature event. That main theme there was, like, most of the time, the business treads on family, but every once in a while it’s time for the family to take that place and take that priority, and you have to put the business at a back seat. Sometimes,

 

30:57

yeah, I was laughing at that because I was like, listening. I mean, I’m the opposite, like, for the most part, I would say, like, if I had to choose, like, business family, we’re family first, and the business comes second. And I really believe that work doesn’t work unless life’s working. So I I believe in starting with life, filling the life bucket first, and then how you show up to work is so much better. And that’s what I want for our employees. That’s what I want for our team. And I think that that’s one of the best things about being in a business with your sibling, is that I ultimately cared way more about Justine as a person than I do about the business. And I think that if Justine came to me and was like, I’m at a place my family needs me right now, I need to go do that, then you’re like, go do that, come back when you’re ready, and like, you have the opportunity to do that for each other. So I’m actually on the opposite end of that.

 

Matt Knight  31:55

That’s a really good perspective too, and it probably, and it sounds like it’s carried into the values and how you work with your employees as well. So I know your kids might be a little bit young, but kind of, do they think that when they grow up, they’re gonna work for Poppy barley like or they have, they had, have they had the opportunity to do anything in the business?

 

Justine Barber  32:14

Yet they haven’t really like my, my older son, the seven year old, like he’ll I always point out, Oh, those are my shoes. That’s my bag. Like, when we see them on the street. All I was on the news recently, so I had him watch it so he knows what I do. Like, he’ll come into my stores, and so he knows what I’m doing. And he finds it pretty interesting. And I was thinking recently, like, I need to get him in the warehouse pretty soon as like, some order packing and everything. Yeah, we definitely talk about it. And kind of to Kendall thing about, I love what I do, what my message to my kids is more like, I have responsibility for you and for the families of my employees and my suppliers and and I have this big impact and responsibility chain. So if I’m, you know, missing your assembly, it’s because I’m balancing being your mom and being who I am at work.

 

Matt Knight  33:12

Can you kind of think of any, you know, I guess, wouldn’t it be with your kids yet? But maybe any moments between the two of you that have been kind of humorous or impactful or difficult as a sibling duo over the last couple of years, just like any time where either business interrupts a family event or family interrupts a business event or

 

33:37

Well, I mean, the first one that comes to mind for me is that Justine postponed her wedding because we needed the money in the company. So, yeah, so I can’t remember even what we needed the money for, but we needed money in the company, and the only money that we had available to us was sitting in Justine’s bank account for her wedding. So she postponed the wedding so that we could run the company. And I’m not sure how that conversation went with Connor, but

 

34:08

I think it was more our parents gave us a certain amount of money for our wedding. And I went to my parents and I was like, Can I just use this for the company? And they said, maybe 50/50, so then I Yeah, so I put half into the company and half into the wedding,

 

Matt Knight  34:26

yeah, so, but you still were able to have have the wedding and everything, yeah?

 

Justine Barber  34:31

I just had it about six months later. I was just so busy, like, starting a company. I was so busy that I remember, like, I can’t plan a wedding and start a company, so I just moved the wedding.

 

Matt Knight  34:41

Yeah, that’s fair. So how does maybe these family values that you’re kind of bring into the business on a daily basis? How does that go into where you see Poppy barley going in the future, like if you think 10-20, years down the line? What does that look like from a family? Company perspective, what does that look like from a business perspective?

 

35:04

I think for us, we most likely envision a future where we do sell the company. So then I think what that takes on is like, well, who’s the buyer, and how do you align your values with the value of a buyer to make sure that you create something that can continue in the way that you would want it to

 

Kendall Barber  35:28

When we started Poppy barley, and, you know, we came out a startup Edmonton, and we were surrounded by a lot of tech entrepreneurs that were very much about, like, building the company to sell the company. And so I think for the first five years of the company, we were all in on the company, and then there was this moment where it’s like, okay, it was the reverse. It was company, then family. It was like, if we continue at this pace, we’re going to be divorced, have no friends and no hobbies, like we will literally be the least interesting people in any room, because all we do is work on our business. And I think like being all in that intense for five years, maybe works if you’re a tech company, that there’s like a very clear exit, and you go hard for five years, you exit, and you have like a mini retirement in your 30s, and then you circle back, and there was this point that we were like, Okay, this is going to take longer than we thought, and so we needed to, like, recalibrate our lives and how we showed up in the business to reflect a longer timeline. So that meant putting confines, like not working all the time. What are our working hours? So I think that was, like, one of the earliest ones, and we always talk about that, like, when we’re doing our planning, we always put on the table, like, what do you want to do in your life in the next 510, years, and then what do we want to do in the business and make sure that those things are working together to support each other and also to understand how we need to support each other as CO leaders in the business. So if Justine, if I wanted to be like, I want to take a six months sabbatical, because I want to move my family to Thailand for six months, I would put that on the table. So Justine’s like, okay, in 2027 that’s what Kendall wants to do. So that means I’m in the business that year, so trying to, like, really make sure we’re talking about both as we’re doing our planning.

 

37:18

I agree with that, but I would say it’s never we’ve never gotten maybe as, like, great at that where, like, in the 10 years that we’ve been working together, probably the most vacation either of us has been taken has been, like, maybe two weeks at a time, like, and again, with both of us, we had babies, and thought, Okay, we’ll be out for like, A few months. And then the reality was, like, three days later, somebody’s phoning you about, like something. So I would say, I think the example of like, going to Thailand for a month is maybe more aspirational than what we’ve been able to get to. But we absolutely do bring life goals as well as business goals to planning sessions.

 

Matt Knight  38:01

Nice. So what do you think is going to be the biggest challenge in the next five to 10 years for the business, either or for the industry? If that’s an easier look like for fashion or sustainable fashion,

 

38:21

I think that the industry we’re in is, like, highly competitive and then highly disruptive. There’s been a lot of shifts, you know, this shift to online, and then back to retail and how products are made. And so I think even, like, where manufacturing is happening, and offshoring, and then onshoring. And so I think it’s just a very high change industry, that I think that for us to stay in it, we just have to really stay on top of everything that’s happening in the space.

 

Matt Knight  38:52

It’s just kind of lots of cycles that you’re going to kind of see those trends popping up again and again.

 

38:57

Yeah. I mean, I hope that, like, for example, I think that, I think the future of leather will look different. So right now, most of our product is all made in leather. I think that in the future, leather might come from a lab, for example. So I think there’s a lot of things like that that we need to make sure we’re part of, and that will change.

 

Matt Knight  39:17

Anything to add there.

 

Kendall Barber  39:18

Yeah, we have fairly big growth ambitions for Poppy, barley. And I think growth always brings challenges. It brings challenges on the capital side. Retail is not everyone’s favorite business to finance, so that’s always a challenge for us. We’re always thinking about capital. Where’s the capital where’s the capital coming from to fund the growth? Yeah, so I think it’s, I think that piece, and then the other piece of it is, how long like if our thinking that our goal is to sell, what’s that timeline? Time and like, how do you continue to bring like, the energy to that, to to building the business? So I think that’s something like, maybe more on the personal side. But like, just really, like, okay, to keep showing up at this level of intensity is like, exhausting in its own right. So like, how do we continue to do that to grow the business? And I think that there’s going to be some really interesting and great conversations between the two of us about how maybe we can trade that on and off to make it happen. Because, yeah, the pace sometimes the pace just isn’t sustainable.

 

Matt Knight  40:40

Yeah, and if you have these milestones set up that you’re trying to reach, if you you know, if there’s scope creep in where they are, I could see a lot of fatigue setting in there of, oh, yeah, we’re going to do this for another 18 months, saying that every 18 months,

 

Kendall Barber  40:55

yeah, yeah.

 

Matt Knight  40:58

So, because we are, you know, very closely affiliated with an educational institute. I always like to ask kind of what’s the biggest book or speaker or seminar or event that you’ve ever done in your life? Very easy question here that’s made an impact in how you run your business or how you work with your family.

 

41:21

I love the book. The hard thing about hard things. So it’s a book that is about when everything goes wrong. Because the premise of the book is, most books are written about like, when, when you’re on the upside, like, what’s your big, hairy, audacious goal? And it’s like, what do you do when your market punch and you have to lay off half your team are break up with your co worker, are turn a company around. So for me, that book is like therapy and the best advice that I’ve read, and I always go back to that when I’m in a rough period with the company, and I just, I love that book.

 

41:58

I mean, the two books that first came to mind is the Art of the Start, especially in the early days, I, like, really appreciated that. And I think for me, that not being a perfectionist and just getting things out into the world was really helpful. And then the book that I come back to the most is probably still good to great. That’s my second like I, you know, every time I feel stuck in the company, I go back and I read good to great. And I think it’s a fantastic, a fantastic read. We also do use Eos, so we use traction, like traction is another book. Every so often I flip back open traction, read a very specific chapter within traction. So those would be probably my three biggest resources.

 

Matt Knight  42:47

Those are all really like awesome recommendations. What advice would you have for someone looking to start a business with their sibling or with their family? Like, what do you wish you knew 10 years ago that you know today,

 

43:10

I feel like starting a business is like getting your MBA. You know, it’s you just learn so much about leadership and family and balance. And I think that probably the perspective that we’ve gained, which is like, how do you balance? I think a lot of entrepreneurs start a business because they want to, yeah, be in charge of their own life and create their own life, and then they get so busy that the business dominates them, and then they lose all sight of that. So I think it would be advice around that, like, how do you not lose your original vision for your life that this business was supposed to facilitate in, like, the busyness and the and the difficulty of the business?

 

Matt Knight  43:52

Yeah, that’s that’s definitely good. Like, how does that business not overtake your own balance and your own goals?

 

Justine Barber  44:02

I think, potentially also the other thing would be like to have a coach, maybe like, I think at times we’ve done that, and it’s been helpful where we brought in a third person to our relationship, because otherwise it is just the two of us all of the time, and that’s helped facilitate some conversations and made some breakthroughs in terms of how we how we work together.

 

44:26

I was going to say being in a family business is both less lonely and more lonely. I think so. It’s less lonely because you’re in there with someone who knows you and knows you well, and can, in our case, like support both the business and life. Where I find it really lonely is that when there’s conflict between the two of us, I don’t want to take that home to my husband, because I want my husband to be just seems. Brother in law. And so I find that sometimes, and I’m not bringing it to my parents, and I’m not bringing it to our other sister, so I think that sometimes when there’s like the conflict piece in a family dynamic, it feels a bit lonelier. And so I think that for us, like we have, we’ve engaged coach. I was part of EO for a bit. Justine has done venture mentoring, like there’s been different places where we’ve gone outside so that we can find people not super close to us to help us navigate that. And that has been really helpful. And I think something I wish I would have done a little bit earlier, because I felt really alone at times, and finding a place to take that?

 

Matt Knight  45:42

Yeah, well, that makes sense. That’s a really good point, and that, I think, is a very common theme in family business, where people don’t feel like they have anyone to talk to. They don’t think that any of their friends will relate to the situation that they’re in.

 

45:56

And like, for us, so many of our friends are shared friends, so like, I really don’t want to take our conflict between us to them either. Like, I want to maintain our relationship as a family, our relationships with our friends before what’s happening in the business, if that makes sense. So

 

Matt Knight  46:15

yeah, and this wasn’t on the script or even something I was covering up. But you So you mentioned another sister. Yes. Has she ever been involved in the business? What does she think of the business?

 

46:28

She has not ever been involved. I think in the beginning, she was a little bit hurt by the fact that she wasn’t involved. And then I think over time, she’s now kind of just happy to be doing her own thing. And she actually lives in Florida now, like she’s and she was in human resources, which you don’t really need until you’re a decently larger company. So yeah, but yeah,

 

Kendall Barber  46:55

she’s a really big supporter, like a really big supporter.

 

Matt Knight  47:00

Okay, so finally, kind of, before we kind of close things off, anything that you want people to know about, Poppy barley or yourselves that I didn’t ask about, that you think is important to share on a family business podcast,

 

Justine Barber  47:18

not even that comes to mind for me. Yeah. Okay.

 

Matt Knight  47:22

Last part. So if people want to know more about Poppy barley, if they want to go buy a new pair of amazing shoes, if they want one of these amazing sweaters that you’re both modeling today, where do they go? How do they find you?

 

47:37

So Poppy barley, we have our E commerce platform. So Poppy briley.com Instagram. We’re just at Poppy Briley. We have three stores. We have a store in Vancouver, we have Vancouver, Calgary, Southgate. We do pop up shops across Canada, but probably our website is the best destination to find out what’s happening. Yep, awesome.

 

Matt Knight  48:04

Well, I want to thank you both very much for making the time today to talk a little bit about, kind of the family perspective, which is maybe a bit of a new lens for you to think about today. But I think from the conversation, I’ve seen a little bit of, kind of some good moments of reflection, which to me is just very powerful. So just want to thank you for being gracious with your time and for sharing your thoughts and feedback.

 

Justine Barber  48:26

Thank you so much.

 

Kendall Barber  48:26

Thank you.