Join us for an insightful episode of ABFI Table Talk featuring Bill and Steven Knight, the father-son duo behind Mosaic Home Services. They share their remarkable journey from running a successful demolition company to building a multi-brand home services franchise operation spanning from Halifax to Vancouver.
In this episode, discover how Bill built B&B Demolition from a $7,000 loan into Edmonton’s dominant demolition company, and how an unexpected exit eventually led to a new chapter with his son Steven. Learn how Steven’s decision not to take over the family demolition business sparked an innovative approach to home services, growing from a one screen repair company to a thriving enterprise with seven different service verticals and over 100 team members.
The Knights candidly discuss their complementary leadership styles – Bill as the “bull in a china shop” and Steven as the thoughtful strategist – and how they’ve leveraged these differences to build a culture of innovation and accountability. They share valuable insights about maintaining family bonds while growing a business, including their “stay in your lane” philosophy and creating work-free spaces for family connection.
Whether you’re interested in family business transitions, franchise development, or building customer-centric organizations, this episode offers practical wisdom about evolving from a single-service company to a scalable enterprise. Learn how listening to customer feedback drove their expansion into new services and how their unique approach to company culture – including letting team members create their own job titles – has built employee loyalty.
Tune in to ABFI Table Talk for an authentic conversation about family business resilience, leadership evolution, and creating opportunities for others to build their entrepreneurial dreams.
Matt Knight 00:07
So, Bill, Steve, welcome to Table Talk. So we’re going to dive into, you know, on table talk in general, we look at diving into some of the stories and insights, kind of behind family businesses and their journeys. So today, I’m excited to be joined by you both and learn a little bit more of the journey that you’ve been on together, both as a family, but as businessmen as well. And you know, learning about how you grew BNB demolition to kind of the sale of that, and then into starting the mosaic group of companies, the mosaic Home Services Group of Companies. And so your story is really just kind of the test. The testament of kind of the vision and resilience and kind of that that really comes from from being a family business. So welcome Bill Steve, maybe. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself for those maybe unfamiliar with your story or with your journey, just kind of talk a little bit about kind of who you are and what what you do today. Maybe we’ll start with you. Steve.
Steven Knight 01:07
Sure. My name is Steven Knight. I’m the creator of solutions and opportunities at Mosaic Home Services, one of the founding partners of that business. Day to day, it’s my job to lead our organization in terms of growth across the country this year, we’re super proud to expand for from Halifax all the way to Vancouver, with franchise locations in three of our eight different brands. It’s my job to lead the team and to find ways to constantly out market and out compete our local competitors in different markets and deliver value wherever we can.
Matt Knight 01:41
You guys kind of do things in whole bunch of different home services, right? That’s right, yeah. So it’s like, like, I see like, screens and Christmas lights, or all season lights, and there’s like the lawn care and snow removal, which I’m guessing is big this time of year, especially with the last week or so, yeah, yeah.
Steven Knight 02:00
So we have, we have seven different verticals or industries sub segments of the home improvement industry that we’re in, ranging from some of them that you mentioned. You know, screen was screen windows and doors, holiday lighting and decor, painting, fencing, asbestos testing and demolition, maid service and window window care, window washing, really, though, at our core, what we do is we listen to our customers. We don’t enter a new vertical in the market unless our clients are giving us that feedback, that it’s a service that they already use or that they already hire every year, we’re asking our clients what they need, and we’re simply responding to what they tell us and adding verticals whenever it makes sense.
Matt Knight 02:40
So basically, you you know customer service, and you know the home and commercial care maintenance space, and you listen to the demand of your of your loyal customer base. That’s right. Okay, Bill, let’s turn over to you, maybe tell us a little bit about you and your journey so far.
Bill Knight 02:55
Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me, Matt. By all means. I really appreciate it. I’m creator of culture and accountability of mosaics. So, you know, my day to day role is, I really problem solve. So that comes to me. And you know, when things come up, I get to work more hands on, more in the field, with the guys or girls and people in the field. I enjoy that aspect of it. I like to I’m always the why, why does that happen? Why does that work? And I need to understand that that’s the way. I think that’s the way I learn. And then I handle the franchise sales across the country. So Grace and myself. We do all the franchise shows. We’ll go there. And so when, when potential franchisees are doing it, they’re actually meeting one of the owners of the company, and we can lay that down and see how we’re here to work it. We want to help you on your entrepreneurial journey next in life and and provide the you know, they come out looking for a business or they can provide for their families. And you know, we really enjoy the fact that we get to meet them face to face the first time and really have those in depth, meaningful conversations. And you know, we take it, we take that journey, that customer journey, down the line, to the point where they end up buying the franchise and and we support them from there on out.
Matt Knight 03:59
Nice. So Bill, when you started B and B, and this goes way back to maybe the 1980s or so, if I get that, if I got that right, what kind of started, or what motivated you to start that business, and what was it like on the early days with, you know, starting that business, you know, maybe, you know, couple of years after new, you know, starting a family. Tell it. Take us back. Sure, funny. I haven’t thought about that story for a long time, you know? I, I started as a laborer, I I came out to Alberta. I came to Alberta for a funeral, and I ended up meeting my wife at the funeral. And we always say the Favorites place we say hello is the last place we’ll say goodbye. So it’s kind of our inside joke. But I had no intention of staying in Alberta. You know, I was just trying to make plane flare to fly back to Ontario. So I ended up taking a job as a laborer, working on the Miss accordion, not the misocordia, the the hospital of the Royal Alex hospital downtown. And you. You know, I was not a lot in life going on a grade nine dropouts, and a lot of opportunities out there knocking down my door, so I was swinging the sledgehammer, and I worked my way up. And, you know, one thing happened to another, and Grace and I the dating turned into love, and love turned into a relationship, and or vice versa. I guess, relationship turned into love, and we ended up getting married, and then, you know, next week, we end up getting pregnant, and I realized that I could not raise a family on $9 an hour. So you know, I’d be working as a laborer during the day and selling vacuum cleaners door to door at night. So that’s how old I am. We still had door to door sales people, so I ended up putting myself through night school at Nate for CET, and I back when you could challenge things, because I didn’t have a high school diploma, so I could go in and challenge these courses and put myself through, and I learned how to estimate and go from there. And I started this, I had this opportunity to start a demo. She got with my aunt and uncle. They came to me, they were my aunt was working for me, and they said, Why don’t you ever do this for yourself? And I had just worked myself into a good job, you know, at that point, it was a early 90s, and I was doing okay. I was looking for a company, and I never thought of that. And they started planting the seed. So I went into business with them, and took all the money we had in the world, which was very little, I think we had about $3,000 and I went into business for them. And things started working out really well. We had, a lot of work, and like anything in life, greed comes along. And on December 15, almost a year into it, they fired me and walked me out the door. Oh, wow. So I left that day and not sure what I was going to do. We had no money, new new house, brand new child and broke and I borrowed $7,000 from a friend, and I started this company called B and B demolition, bigger and better, and we never looked back. We we were determined to grow. And a year after that, I forced them out of business, and they closed, and we just continued to escalate. And so Stephen you, so you kind of grew up around B and B in the demolition business. What was it like, kind of watching your dad lead and build this business? And did you always kind of think you were going to do this? You were going to be like dad?
Steven Knight 07:12
I don’t know if I ever had the thought I’m going to be like dad, but I knew that I loved every conversation about the business. It’s something that I kind of thrived on. I When people ask me, I said, I never had a kitchen table. I had a boardroom table. And I got to sit down and, you know, I family dinner, hear about customer a or problem B or I just got to get ensconced in and I remember vividly, I was probably, I don’t know, eight, and I was trying to teach my grandma how to turn the computer on so she could invoice. So I always got to be involved in it, and to this day, I’m very grateful for that, because I got the the MBA experience of seeing it built from ground up, from the time that I was shorter than this table.
Matt Knight 07:56
So you kind of you always thought that you would be involved in something entrepreneurial, but didn’t really know if it was going to be demolition or didn’t know if it would be with your dad,
Steven Knight 08:04
Absolutely. And I was very grateful that, you know, my first job was pulling nails out of boards for a nickel and nail in the back shop. You know, I got the opportunity whenever i i wanted to or whenever I needed to be involved in the business. I got the opportunity to go try stuff, and that really helped me through my schooling, through high school, through university, because I got to learn theory and immediately go try and apply it and learn about what worked and what didn’t. And I had my own little entrepreneurial journeys when I was in high school University, I before social media marketing was a whole industry, I would, I would go to little companies and say, hey, I’ll get you on Facebook. And there were just lots of entrepreneurial opportunities in my life thanks to the experience that my dad had in terms of building his business and getting to learn from that experience.
Matt Knight 08:53
Nice. So, Bill, I think, I think I’m trying to remember so the B and B, and I think maybe mosaic as well, kind of hard work and integrity are always kind of the key values that you know, couple a couple, like he always seemed to talk about those things. How did those values, or maybe other ones, if those aren’t the right ones, shape the company’s culture and the reputation in the industry, and kind of your reputation as an individual and as a business family,
Bill Knight 09:23
That is a lot of questions. You know, it’s interesting, right? I mean, the lot goes into business. And anybody that’s in business or there, a lot goes into it to make it happen every day. I don’t think there’s any secret sauce. You know, many people would disagree with me. I think you really just got to work harder than your competition in all aspects of it. So you got to work harder to keep your customer happy, work harder to retain your staff. Work harder to find the next deal, work harder to be innovative and keep moving forward. And what’s the easier way to do things? You just need to get up each day and work harder. And if you do that, it works. You know, when everybody talks about the success side of it, BNB had a we had a great. On, don’t get me wrong, like in what we accomplished in 16 years was was unheard of. We went from, you know, I was lucky. I got my first job at West amend them all. And I remember Don looking at me in the face and saying, if you can finish this job, and I if you can finish this job, I’ll pay you the day you’re done. And I couldn’t make payroll. I had no money to make payroll, but we did everything we could. We finished our day. I worked upstairs, and they cut me the check, and I was able to make payroll. And we just, we just kept moving forward. You know, as our careers went we, you know, I like to, it’s the why question. Again, I’m always asking, why, why? So we were able to just leap some downs, overtake our competition. And, you know, I bought three competitors out along the way, and at one point in time, there was no other choice in Edmonton but B and B, like that was that, was it like we, you know, there was competitors, by all means, but, you know, we had just such a dominant place in the market that we had established it, you know. And everybody talks about the good side, but there’s lots of bad that comes with that too. There’s lots of, lots of things did, I mean, I didn’t have the I didn’t have the healthiest instead of going to the gym and working out each day, I had, I took bad habits on and and that probably wasn’t that wasn’t a great outcome for the business in the end.
Matt Knight 11:12
So what was it kind of that that overworking and just being too much in the business? Is that what led to the decision to sell B and B or, like, tell us about that a little bit. Yeah,
Bill Knight 11:22
you know, BNB was a staged exit. I had a I had a group coming along to me five years prior to me exiting. And, you know, Steven was still a young man. And I said, you know, I’m looking at taking this deal. Was this maybe a company you might want to take over someday? And as much as we sat at the kitchen table. We always had a no TV conversation at dinner. So we there was always conversation the three of us. There’s only three of us so small family, right? You know, he got to see it, but he also got to see the weeks where his dad was at home and the addictions that came along with that, and then endless hours and that. So I’m asking a 17 or 16 year old kid if he wants to take that business over, and you know in the mind they’re seeing that. So he said, No, he didn’t. So we entered a relationship with this group, and about four years into it, we realized it wasn’t a good we wasn’t a good marriage, and I ended up being bottle on December 15 of 2015 That reoccurring date there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was quite creepy.
Matt Knight 12:23
And how did you feel? Kind of stepping away from what you had built.
Bill Knight 12:27
At first, I realized I had lost my identity. It was a real journey. You know, I had put so much time into it, and I was really lost. I was completely lost. I didn’t I know what to do. When I got up in the morning, I found myself driving around the city looking at job signs, wondering how that was going to happen, what was going to do. And then I took a life journey. My wife and I were in spruce Grove, and we bought a small, little RV, and called Stephen and said we were leaving. And we we traveled for a year down the highway one to Tijuana and across route 66 and took 10 months, for 12 months, and just re established life, okay?
Matt Knight 13:04
And then from there, it was looking at, what’s the next opportunity that you’re looking for, what was the next business you wanted to do?
Bill Knight 13:10
No, because, you know, you never wait so well, we did that. We we acquired this one little company called screen savers and Stevens running a day to day. And that started in a little shed out in winter burn, and we would talk occasionally when I could get cell service or whatnot, Steven was definitely their hands on the I was distanced and trying to get my get my health back and get my sanity back. And he was running up, but we were having these conversations throughout it. And it’s like, you know, great business, but it’s never going to, it’s never going to be a business that makes sense. You know, it’s a hobby. You can, you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna, it’s, it’s not gonna be there. So he started taking other business into it. He started growing other businesses. So by the time we had done our journey, I came back and Steven had four companies established. By that point?
Steven Knight 13:59
2020, yeah, I want to say we probably had five or six. I’d have to look at the I’d have to look at the chart, but it was just all feedback from clients. What else can we do for you?
Matt Knight 14:08
Okay, just Stephen thinking back to kind of that being being an exit, and maybe that conversation with your dad and grace. What was kind of your experience during that process. How did you feel about being involved, and how did that prepare you for, you know, the entrepreneurial journey that you were going to go on?
Steven Knight 14:31
That is a lot of questions.
Matt Knight 14:33
I like big questions, apparently.
Steven Knight 14:35
yeah, I can still remember the day, actually, when it was, it was the final piece of the transaction in 2015 I remember I was sick as a dog, and I was, I was over at their house, and I was, I was 22 and we were having the final conversation about, are we doing this? Are we not and I just remember thinking, you know, I valued my contribution to the business. I valued the opportunity to be involved. Involved in the conversation. I valued the fact that my opinion mattered, but I always knew that I wanted to do something that I put my stamp on. And I don’t know if that was simple youth, naivety, or vanity or what it was, but it was one of those things where I was just very proud of of what my dad and my mom had built, and it simply felt like it wasn’t necessarily mine to take over. It was something that they and I worked very, very hard at. But sometimes, when life comes along with an opportunity, you have to take it. And frankly, I think the thing that I was feeling the most was excitement to get into something that is a little bit different, a little bit new, and apply what I had learned in a different way.
Matt Knight 15:48
Yeah, it’s almost that excitement for the ability to co create something, opposed to taking over something.
Steven Knight 15:54
Yeah, and it’s not to say that one is or is better or worse. It’s just something that had driven me to say, what can we do that’s different? You know, there’s, there’s 20 years of experience in this specific industry. Is there something that we’ve learned that can be applied in a different way?
Matt Knight 16:12
What were some of those things that you learned at B and B, and this is maybe a question for both of you, that you applied in this new business?
Steven Knight 16:20
You know, the list is very long, but I think the most important is just that, if you’re not looking after your customer, someone else’s, and it’s very, very important to me that we get as much feedback about the client experience, not just in how did the job go, but what was the experience in buying? What was the experience in finding us? What was the experience before you even thought about the product you needed. Yeah? Because if we’re not thinking about those things in somebody elses
Matt Knight 16:48
bill, anything come to mind for you?
Bill Knight 16:49
Yeah, I never wanted to be in a market again that didn’t have at least a billion dollars with a capability. You know, B and B was a great business. Don’t get me wrong, I loved it, and it gave, gave lots back to the community. It was a good pillar. It supported many families. And then throughout it, it was great. You know, there’s no better pride or proud moments go through your head when you can look out your office window and you see that all of a sudden there’s newer cars in the driveway, or they’re starting talking about the new newer houses are getting or you’re watching kids. So to me, that was an accomplishment. Throughout it, because it wasn’t just me getting ahead. It doesn’t do any good if I’m sitting on the beach alone. I want everybody to be on the beach with me. But it was capped by by by territory. Like BNB was great in Edmonton, okay, I couldn’t reestablish that in Calgary, maybe over time. I could over, you know, we, we could have expanded that. But with mosaic, my my possibility is endless, like BNB was, as long as you need a demolition. You needed me mosaic. There’s so many different services. There’s so many different opportunities, so many different veins to draw draw money from. My customer base is so much larger. I never want to be in something where my customer base is capped like that ever again.
Matt Knight 17:55
Makes sense? And what, what took you towards the franchise model is pretty different than kind of what I understood about B and B, so why? What created that leap?
Bill Knight 18:06
So we never, we never bought into screensavers being the first one to run it like that wasn’t our dream. We were, we were going to be, you know, angel investors, and we’re going to invest in these companies and help grow them, not be in them. And then, you know, one thing led to another. And next thing you know, you’re in their day to day, running it, and you’re watching it grow from, you know, a small storage shed to to, you know, 10s of 1000s of square feet and and product, and across the country like, and if we could do that, I knew nothing about a screen window, like, I didn’t even know the screen. Like, I haven’t opened my Windows my house ever I have an air conditioner. Like, sorry, it’s all wrong. But, like, I didn’t know how to build a screen. But if we could figure out how to build a screen, somebody else could. And if we have a need for a screen, well, somebody else probably has a need for a screen. So when we started looking at other businesses, you get in there, you understand it, and think, Okay, if this is providing me a living, and the people that we have as a living, you know, we have over 100 teammates now just in the Edmonton area, if that can provide a living for them, well, there’s a part we just, we just put business in a box and take it out to somebody else, and now can, now you can help build their dreams, because that’s what entrepreneurship is about, is having being able to give that gift to other people and let them run with it.
Matt Knight 19:21
That’s almost going back to the previous comment about the new cars in your parking lot. Of being able to help others kind of grow as as you know, their family wealth and their family opportunities as well.
Bill Knight 19:32
Absolutely, that’s, that’s, that’s where real, that’s where the real value comes in. Is when you as when we all strive like society becomes better.
Matt Knight 19:40
Stephen, when you’re thinking about kind of Mosaic group becoming a bit of a leader in the property and home services, what opportunities kind of led to the creation of that, and then how do you bring the team together to execute on that? So if it’s about LA. Looking at the service and, you know, solving your customers need. How did you build a team to do that?
Steven Knight 20:07
How did I build a team to do that for us? It was about finding people who fit culturally and with values alignment first. And that’s, you know, a very stereotypical, boxed answer that any entrepreneur is going to tell you, but I’m going to be honest with you, Matt, that’s that’s the answer. You need to find a team of people who might not have the skills, might not have the experience, might not have ever worked in Home Improvement before, Property Maintenance before. But if they can look at a problem and align the solution with the values that that your company exhibits and that your customers find value in, it becomes a very simple problem to solve. So we’ve developed a team at mosaic of people who are constantly looking out to the market for feedback from clients, but also looking at competitors and saying, How does our value proposition, how does our product offering, how does a service offering differ in good ways and bad? And how can we really distill down the market to our core group of clients that find value in the things that we offer and do better than anybody else at achieving those and when we can, when we started to really focus on those key questions and align people around those challenges. It became a simple solution, and now we’re applying that with franchisees to say, let’s find franchisees that fit those values. And you’re seeing the ones that that are strongly, strongly aligned really take off.
Matt Knight 21:38
Nice. Bill, what has it been like for you, kind of being part of, kind of the vision of some of this, but I think in many ways, maybe stepping, stepping aside, and letting, letting Stephen run with the day to day and some of the leadership decisions. What has that been like for you both, you know, some of the frustrations, but also some of the, you know, I’m sure there’s been some proud moments in there as well.
Bill Knight 21:59
Yeah, there’s a lot of proud moments. You know, Stephen and I are two very different people. I’m a bull in a Chinese shop. Let’s run in, and Stephen is he’ll sit back and think about it and plan it and have a strategy and go with it from there. So for me, it’s a learning experience. I love it, you know? And yeah, first it was a little bit tough to step back and let somebody else make those decisions and but now I really, really thoroughly enjoy it. I love the fact I haven’t signed a payroll check in five years. I have no clue what’s in the bank account. I couldn’t tell you who our lawyer is. I couldn’t tell you any of that, but I could tell you the names of every one of our team members. So I’m really passionately doing what I like to do. You know, that’s what I enjoyed doing. I was a boots on the ground kind of guy. I like getting out there and understanding that some of the best conversations I have is when I’m at a customer. So I was helping hang lights, and they’re talking to me about the company. They have no idea I own the company, none whatsoever. And it’s perfect, because that’s where you get your best information. Yep, you know, it’s just, it’s just true. Here it is. And I’m, yeah, like, you know, I would say at BNB, my biggest downfall is my ego got in the way. And here my ego is checked at the door. It’s not It’s okay. And I really love it. So I love the fact that I have trust and faith in Stephen. And you know, like anything, I’ve learned more from my mistakes in life than I ever have my successes. So I actually enjoy when he makes a mistake. I enjoy when he sees that. Look at his face, he’s like, oh, yeah, yeah. So those are, those are really great moments. Those are proud moments. I’m, you know, happy to watch it. You know, we had the privilege, I guess you could say, and I’ll use that term loosely, of guiding this business through COVID. This is a business that are in people’s houses. If we’re not into people’s houses. We’re not in business. And I’ve been in business for over 30 years as an independent as an entrepreneur, the hardest day in my life ever was having to walk people upstairs one at a time and lay them off over and over and over again. But there was a shining light, because everybody kept saying, and you didn’t know, because you had to listen to whatever popped up on the radio at 9am in the morning, you had to do exactly what was said, so you couldn’t tell. But people kept saying, Can I work from home? Can I? Can I, can I? And we’re like, we don’t know how to pay you. And they’re like, doesn’t matter. We’ll figure it out. So it was really spectacular when we were able to, and we started bringing these people back one at a time over time, and and then we knew we were onto something great. And and then I knew the leadership was spectacular, because people were like, No, I’ll work for free. And I’m looking at it, I’m like, Steven, you’re on the right path.
Matt Knight 24:35
If people trust that you’re going to do the right thing and they’re willing to do it for free until you figure it out. Like, I don’t think there’s a bigger compliment you can get than that.
Bill Knight 24:41
Absolutely not. And if Absolutely not. And if they’re willing to do that, then, God willing, I’m certainly like, they’ll follow a leader into anywhere if they believe in you. And those people, every one of them just believed in him. And I’m just like, you are doing the right thing here. So it was really great to watch that happen. So those are those my takeaways. So. Yeah,
Matt Knight 25:00
and you mentioned something at the beginning of that about kind of checking your ego. And does that have to do with kind of the non traditional titles that you both have?
Bill Knight 25:08
Yeah, that was actually, that was actually out a book for the Make a Wish Foundation. And it was like, I really wish I could remember, because I love to read, and the title is just escaping me right now. But, you know, was talking about their journey as they help these kids. And, you know, like director was just so, you know, they’re granting less wishes for children. So they wanted, they needed to bring some something into their organization. So we adopted that. And it was, it was fantastic, you know, it really makes it move. So when people come to the team now, you know, the first thing is, we need you to, we need you to pick up your title. And they’re like, well, CFO, and we’re like, oh, well, why don’t we take a little bit deeper look at what you do, or what do you what do you want to do, or how does that apply to you? And if you let them create that, I feel that they’re just, you know, you’ve you can watch the change in a person.
Matt Knight 25:56
And a lot more kind of ownership with that too. Absolutely that what’s kind of the coolest title that has been created so far? And you can’t say either of yours.
Steven Knight 26:10
We’ve got one now that I really enjoy, and I’m going to screw it up, of course, but it’s, it’s, it’s a lighting brilliance director, and it’s somebody leading our holiday lighting division, and she does a fantastic job. But that’s, you know, it was a long conversation to say, well, what are we actually doing every day? We’re not We’re not managing, we’re not doing that XYZ. We’re delivering this experience and this, this brilliance to somebody’s home or property.
Matt Knight 26:40
Yeah, for sure, any other ones come to mind for you? Bill?
Bill Knight 26:43
You know, it’s always funny, you get put on the spot. I’m looking at it. I’m thinking, nothing draws to my attention, but everybody’s got these great titles, and I’m just, I’m sorry, I’m just drawing a blank, but.
Matt Knight 26:52
That’s good, so switch gears a little bit again. So Steven, what’s been kind of one of the lessons you’ve taken from your dad and how he’s built companies over the years that you like to try and try and apply, and I know you’re also trying to find your own path as well.
Steven Knight 27:06
Yeah, there’s been an endless number of of lessons, and I’ve attempted to implement or run with them as best as I possibly can. You know? I think one of the things, in one of the ways that we’re very different is that, you know, I’m a bit of a tactician. I’ll take my time and I’ll make a plan, and Bill is that bull in a china shop by all means, like we’re picking a direction and we’re going right now, and it might be the wrong one, but it doesn’t matter. And I’ve had to apply that myself a few times, and it is definitely not a natural skill set, but I found that, you know, I’ve learned more through the experience of saying, Oh, we don’t have all the information. Let’s just try then, than any other way, necessarily, whether that’s, you know, ask for the big contract, ask for the big financing, ask for the big because you don’t know what you’re, what you’re, gonna get. So that’s definitely a trait that I don’t naturally have, but I’ve definitely learned to apply.
Matt Knight 28:07
Bill. What have you learned from from Stephen over the years?
Bill Knight 28:11
Patience, okay, yeah, definitely patience. That is the big, big thing. Like, I just love the fact I like to watch them think, and it’s, it’s like, I just sit there, and I know there’s 1000 different thoughts going on, and he’ll, he’ll map it out and look at it and say, okay, you know. And it’s a skill I don’t have. Like, I just, I work on it. I want to be good, better at it. I want to do it. I just, we’re going this way when we’ll figure it out when we get there, and we’ll just, we’ll just keep moving. And it’s not always right, but it’s always adventurous,
Matt Knight 28:47
yeah, and it’s, and I think it kind of suits the titles that you both have pretty well, and that you can’t really build culture through spreadsheets or, you know, analyzing, but you also can’t really make, you know, some of those, you know, bigger decisions without analyzing them, you can, but it’s, it’s challenging sometimes to go back and forth there.
Bill Knight 29:07
It is. And you know, we’ve established the team that the team’s so large now, like, you can see one of the light installers, and, you know, you sit down and talk to him or her, and they’re, you know, you can tell they don’t really enjoy it, but they have so many great skills. So be able to have that conversation and move them into a different position and watch them develop into that. So it’s great to just be able to do that right to just watch people develop.
Matt Knight 29:29
And start to kind of find where people fit, and absolutely those kind of those cogs and kind of behind the running of the business that helps it grow. So as you’re thinking about the future mosaic group, what does that look like, both big picture and then also, because this is a family business podcast, I know Bill you mentioned grandkids and that there’s only three of you, so that leads me to be pretty confident in the fact that Steven has kids. Are they going to join? A mosaic group. Do they already, you know, kind of provide, you know, your dad or your mom with tech support on the computer?
Steven Knight 30:08
Not quite, they’re just, they’re just figuring out iPads. Now, I’ve got two beautiful daughters, one is three and one is five months. They’re not in the business yet. However, we were screwing some light bulbs in the other day, which is more fun than than than anything. But, you know, it would give me great joy to see them involved in some way in the future, but at the end of the day, the path is theirs, and the degree to which they opt in is really up to them. In terms of the future of mosaic, we’re only going to continue to grow and add more locations and and add more franchisees from coast to coast. And we’re very excited. Obviously, it’s been a great year this year. It’s going to be a great year next. And we’re just excited to continue to see the models that we’ve worked so hard to develop be applied in so many other markets across the country.
Matt Knight 30:59
Okay, I’m gonna ask another question that’s gonna put both you on the spot, because I just thought of it, what’s kind of both your your favorite product line or service line today? So the favorite, favorite problem that you solve, and what’s the biggest one that you don’t solve today, that you really think you should be doing?
Bill Knight 31:19
You’re going on that one. You know, my comfort in me would say that demolition, we do have, we do have a demolition company. So I know that industry very well. I know inside out, upside down, so it’s definitely where my comfort zone is. But my favorite is really the Christmas like, five star holiday decor, like, I love watching it come to creation. Like I’ve seen a reality show on everything. I think five star should be the next reality show, because if you can do it on fish tanks, or you do it on this or that, you what this business creates and the happiness it brings is spectacular. Like I I love watching people smile. It’s great. You know, each year we do a house for charity, and, you know, neighbors nominate a neighbor for that. So when you go and you talk to these people, and they’re like, Yeah, and you get some pretty heartfelt stories of why they nominated their neighbor, and you light up their house, and that brings me happiness. It brings me, brings me a lot of joy. When I fill other people’s bucket, it brings me happiness,
Matt Knight 32:13
yeah, and that one can, like lights bring so much, like, both in terms of safety, but also in terms of that, like, emotional, you know, feeling of happiness and joy, like it can bring so much to a street or a house. And then, so we’ll have you answer that, that question next, and then we’ll go to the what, what do you what should you be doing?
Steven Knight 32:33
Yeah
Matt Knight 32:34
or click,
Steven Knight 32:34
you know about all of our, all of our brands are my favorite.
Matt Knight 32:38
They’re kind of like asking you pick a favorite kid?
Steven Knight 32:40
Yeah, they’re they’re all unique in their own way. But the thing that ties them together is that emotional appeal that somebody comes to their home, whether it’s after a long day work, and they they see it lit up for the holidays or something as simple as, you know, my backyard is secured with a new fence. I can go do whatever I want back there. You know, the paint job looks beautiful. There’s so many ways that that we impact emotion in clients, whether it’s feeling that joy of a lighting display or that safety of a of an enclosed space, or the excitement of a place that we’ve demolished and it’s coming in for something new. I love to see that in every client that said holiday lighting is one of the things that is always exciting for me, specifically from a municipal level. We do a lot of work with small town, small town, Alberta, small town, BC, where it’s like, you know, you’re watching the Grinch still Christmas, and they’re lighting up the trees like, we get to deliver that. That’s a really special experience that we’re excited to have.
Matt Knight 33:44
And then, and I know this is a weird question, because you’ve probably thought about a lot of these, but like, what’s the one that what’s the next thing that you think you could do? It doesn’t mean you’re going to do. It doesn’t mean you have to.
Bill Knight 33:56
I can answer this. Yeah. You know, at some point, mosaic, we still operate. We only franchise three of the seven brands. Okay, so there’s a lot of other daily data pieces moving on. At some point, mosaic will switch to a full franchise, and that’s all they’ll do. You know, that’s, that’s what we should be really working on right now. That’s what we should be establishing. We should, we should be stepping back from the day to day and working on that big picture. You know, we’re at a goal to have 30 locations this year. We’re three away. We want to have 45 next year, you know. But when I talk like, you know, when I when I talk reality show, I really believe that’s what we should be doing as reality show, I see it. I can envision it like that’s a big picture, you know, we, we’ve, we’ve applied for dragons that a few times, but they keep saying no to us to their loss, but, but, you know, it’s just, there’s such a huge potential for it, like, if we can get 45 locations out the door next year, that’s where that’s that’s where we want to be. But in order to do that, we got to start spending more time on it, and not. In it, yeah, you know, you’re, you’re dealing with some smaller issues that we need to, need to say, Okay, you go deal with that, and we’re gonna go work on this.
Matt Knight 35:09
Yeah, systems and processes and.
Steven Knight 35:11
yeah, yeah. I would echo that the, the only thing that I would add is that we always, we listen to our market, we listen to our customers, and there’s always little things that we’re doing every year to say, is there a product line that we can add? Is there a service line that we can add? If our client base is telling us that that’s what where we need to go? And we made a lot of little changes over the years about, you know, change Product A or change product B, but it’s always market driven, and it will never not be
Matt Knight 35:43
so kind of on that same kind of theme of next generation. What advice would you give to other families or other father son duos that are looking to start a business or go into business together?
Steven Knight 35:57
I think one of the things that that has allowed us to be successful is as a business, as business partners and as a family, is simply creating boundaries where work doesn’t permeate. So, you know, some things that we do, we have breakfast every Friday, right? And as much as we don’t talk about work, you know, every now and then you have a comment that kind of slips in, but we make a conscious effort to talk about other things, and we noticed that, or I’ve noticed that as as my wife and I have welcomed children to our family, it’s very much about personal around the kids. I’m sure that will change as they age, but it’s about creating safe spaces where we’re not talking about the business. We’re not talking about this fire. We’re not talking about X, Y, Z. We’re just here talking about ourselves or our families or what’s going on.
Bill Knight 36:49
The only thing I’d add to that, Stephen is, I believe we have grace, Steven and myself, we stay in our own lanes. And it’s very clear, stay in your lane. If you I say, I have it, I have it. Or Stephen Grace like just trust in the process and let them, let them run with it, but stay in your own lane.
Matt Knight 37:08
And is that, just like accountability? Is that role definition?
Bill Knight 37:13
It’s both. It would be accountability and role definition. You know it’s okay to put your hand up and say, Hey, I need help. In fact, encourage that. Please do that. But if you say you got it, it just, I’m not sticking my I’m not it’s not a tow in, like your 40th amendment where you go.
Matt Knight 37:29
So the so do the three of you have detailed job descriptions with KPIs.
Bill Knight 37:35
We have clear lanes. We have clear goals,
Steven Knight 37:41
by nature of the business, especially through COVID, and as we’ve come out of COVID into this new world, and as we’ve expanded franchise location, our roles, just naturally, as any business owner would experience, have had to change pretty considerably. So it’s about having transparent conversations when it’s, it’s somebody’s dropping the ball or, or it’s unclear who’s accountable for what it’s about sitting down and saying, Okay, who’s got this? Yeah, and as a result, no, we don’t have clearly defined job descriptions KPIs, because our business is growing at a pace where, where? If we put one in next month, we’d be reviewing it.
Matt Knight 38:23
So I like to, one of the questions, I like to kind of wrap things up with a little bit is just, you know, in terms of, you know, what’s been the biggest opportunity for learning, whether it was a business book or course or seminar, it doesn’t have to be from ABFI. And I know Bill, you’re, you’ve kind of been a lifelong learner, where you, you know, go through different business books all the time. So if there’s like one book that you had to recommend to someone, what would it be?
Bill Knight 38:47
I like anything written by Malcolm Gladwell. Big fan. Big fan. But if I looked at what helped to get me here today, I could unconditionally say EO. I would I would say the my form group, the organization as a whole, it’s given me opportunities that I would never have in life. I went to London Business School to study MIT Harvard, and just the day to day experiences where I can sit down and say, Hey, I’m experiencing this. You know, what have you done? Or what have you just to have that mentorship EO has been unconditionally, the biggest learning thing I’ve ever done in life.
Matt Knight 39:23
So just that value of kind of pure mentorship and peer support and peer learning.
Bill Knight 39:29
Yeah, peer to peer, you know, it’s whatever industry it is. Typically you’re, you’re probably experiencing the same, same problem, or this, or the same success, you know? So if we can just have that peer to peer experience, and it just helps to it helps to have somebody to talk to.
Matt Knight 39:43
Yeah, no, it does awesome.
Steven Knight 39:46
I would echo that I joined EO about five years ago. Now, my experience with EO has been very different than bills, and I think every entrepreneur that goes into eo is going to have their own experience. I’ve gotten a lot of value out of the International. National learning experiences as well. You know, plug for the U of A my Commerce degree was great. I still use some of the teachings there, you know, to this day, but, but EO has been an experience where you’re not only learning from peers, but also from some of the best professors in the world. That it’s been a great, great experience for me,
Matt Knight 40:20
Awesome. Well, I think that’s pretty good place to wrap up any kind of closing comments or things you wish you said, or wish I wished I wished I asked, or things that have come into your mind?
Bill Knight 40:31
not for me. I think it’s a it’s actually been fun to go down memory lane. By all means. It’s like my head’s full of thoughts that I haven’t thought about for for a lot of years. So yeah, it’s been a good experience for me. Thank you.
Matt Knight 40:42
Excellent.
Steven Knight 40:42
Yeah, yeah. Very much appreciate your time. And yeah, just excited to hear more stories of more business families. Edmonton is a fantastic place with with lots of them, so I look forward to listening to more episodes.
Matt Knight 40:54
Excellent. Well, thank you both very much for being on Table Talk. For those of you who don’t know about table talk or be or ABFI. We’re here to tell the stories of business families like the Knights. And I do want to make it clear that my last name, which is also night, has nothing to do with with the other tribe of knights that I’m with right now. So there’s no nepotism that got them here to the table today. And really, what ABFI does on top of this podcast, we work with business families on succession and governance and talking about leadership and talking about developing the next gen, and just so happy to have guests and the opportunity to share their stories. We also have a next gen peer group that we’re launching right away that’s come back, you know, both with with the something we used to do long time ago, that that people have been asking for. And it was really neat to see that connection of kind of the value. Of kind of the value of peer groups for both of you, and how that’s helped to shape your success. So thank you both very much for your time today, and have a wonderful day.
Road 55 41:58
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